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still ok to setmine? 2nl zoom 3way

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still ok to setmine? 2nl zoom 3way - Tue Mar 04, 2014, 03:09 AM
(#1)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
still ok to setmine here ? as i heard before i need him to have 10-15times of the 'call-prize' in posittion
and 15-20x out of position

so i needed to call 20cents to win kindof 2$... but it was 3way... so can i count that i need to call 20cents to win 4$?

i just need to get math clear on dis

 
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Tue Mar 04, 2014, 04:09 AM
(#2)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi,

I can't see the video, because of my stupid browser. So I don't know if what I am going to say will help, but....

if using implied odds of 15:1, then preflop, I would say it would be the pot amount added to the effective stack you think you could potentially extract from a particular villain. Divide this number by 15 (or 20 if OOP - if that is what oyu are using) and that should be the amount you should be willing to call with hoping to hit your set.

I hope that is helpful.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Tue Mar 04, 2014, 04:46 AM
(#3)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by pullin1988 View Post
Hi,

I can't see the video, because of my stupid browser. So I don't know if what I am going to say will help, but....

if using implied odds of 15:1, then preflop, I would say it would be the pot amount added to the effective stack you think you could potentially extract from a particular villain. Divide this number by 15 (or 20 if OOP - if that is what oyu are using) and that should be the amount you should be willing to call with hoping to hit your set.

I hope that is helpful.

Cheers,

Pullin
most of the time, refreshing page, will solve ur video problem... this page is badly coded, that it shows video to user before it is fully loaded, some smileys dont work, etc...and dat leads to problemz i guess... just refresh page and let me know if it worked...
 
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Tue Mar 04, 2014, 04:54 AM
(#4)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Interesting rule...
So following this rule, hero needs to win 15 times $0.20 = $3,- to make a provitable call.

So does this mean you need to win $3 from your villains, or just a pot of $3, with a big portion of "your own money" in it ?

e.g. Flop comes QK3, villain1 had AQ, villain2 has AK. hero has 33
Someone bets 35 on flop, all call, pot is 165.
On turn it's checked to hero, and hero bets 75. AK calls. pot 315.
On river hero shoves, AK folds
Would that be enough ? Hero actually wins only 165ct...

Last edited by rkleefstra; Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 05:11 AM..
 
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Tue Mar 04, 2014, 06:21 AM
(#5)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
The video works in Fire foxy.

Preflop I would call as you did. When villain squeezes, you have to call $0.20 as you have already said - the pot is now $0.60.

So I believe you have to add this $0.60 to the effective stack(s) that you believe you would be able to win if you hit your set.

so...... if you believe that you could extract maximum value from villain 2, the effective stack is $1.75

So......I believe that $0.60 + $1.75 = £2.35. So £2.35/15 (if you are using the rule 15:1) then you would have to call around $0.16 and no more - based on the math alone.


But then it depends...on what you think might happen, or on reads that you have.

For example

The pot is multiway, can I get both stacks if I hit my set, and since the pot is multiway, it will be more likely that one of villains could potentially or end up with a better hand. So therefor your implied odds are reduce (I don't know how much).


Hi rkleestra

Quote:
So following this rule, hero needs to win 15 times $0.20 = $3,- to make a provitable call.
From what I know about implied odds for set mining then if you are using the 15:1 implied odds rule, whatever you amount you call with, in this case, $0.20 you want to win 15 times that amount (so as you said) 15 x $0.20 = $3.00 to make it a profitable call.

Quote:
So does this mean you need to win $3 from your villains, or just a pot of $3, with a big portion of "your own money" in it ?
I believe the amount to win is the amount of the pot + (effective stack in the current situation, or multiple stacks if you think others will end up putting their stacks in on later streets, and that you believe that your set is the best hand - note I am not sure of the implied odds in big multiway pots since it would be more likely that a villain could end up with a better hand than you)

It's mainly all about preflop, since it is only on the flop you will know if you hit your set.


I hope all that makes sense. If not wait for someone else's response - lol

Cheers,

Matt

Last edited by pullin1988; Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 06:34 AM..
 
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Tue Mar 04, 2014, 07:53 AM
(#6)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
0.2 x 15 then you probably need to have 3$ effective stack. The three of you started with 2$. Then probably that's not gonna work for us given the 15/20 rule. The real odds of hitting a set is 8.4:1 If I'm not mistaken. So implied odds wise, we need something like x10 but because when we do set mine and hit our set, we won't end up stacking off then that's why this higher requirement rule came to make it more worth while calling to set mine. Set mining works best vs tight ranges against someone who will pay off with an overpair or TPTK. Though we are not exactly getting the 15x amount, I think set mining vs two opponents with less than 15x in 3bet pot is better than set mining vs one opponent in SRP from late position even with 20x the amount.
 
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Tue Mar 04, 2014, 10:38 AM
(#7)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
Though we are not exactly getting the 15x amount, I think set mining vs two opponents with less than 15x in 3bet pot is better than set mining vs one opponent in SRP from late position even with 20x the amount.
and why u like that more?
 
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Tue Mar 04, 2014, 11:45 AM
(#8)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
and why u like that more?
I think because then there are two chances a villain hits a good hand in stead of just one.
We need at least one good hand to get full value out of our set. Two good hands would be an extra.


And with "good' I mean something we can beat...
 

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