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5NL 6max zoom - Good play? and what to do next...

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5NL 6max zoom - Good play? and what to do next... - Wed Mar 05, 2014, 05:04 PM
(#1)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328


Villain unknown.

I think I could raise pre against a buttonraise but obviously I didn't.

OTF I suspected to have the best hand here quite often so I check/raised. He called which worried me a bit.
The turn looked like a blank to me. I decided to second barrel with was more or less a semi-bluff, ready to fold to a raise.
He called again. Now I was pretty sure he had a 10 and I was dead so I'm giving up.
Than that river comes...

Does that river chance things?

so two questions:
1) how is my line
2) What to do OTR?
 
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Wed Mar 05, 2014, 05:35 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Its a difficult one with no reads to know what he raises with pre and continues with on flop and turn, and can call a flop raise.

If we raise pre we have a greater idea of what he might have.

To call a flop raise, I think his range will pocket pairs, Tx, 5x and maybe big Aces that dont want to fold yet. Calling turn cbet significantly strengthens his range IMO. Tx, 55/99 and higher pocket pairs. Perhaps AKs sticks around after floating flop and turning more equity with spades and overcards.

I'm not sure what worse hands will call a shove, and if we bet we have to shove, if we check, I dont know if we can call a shove. I ran some ranges through Equilab and it suggests we will often be good on this board run-out.
 
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Wed Mar 05, 2014, 05:47 PM
(#3)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
IMO, your line OTF isn't good. You're taking a very aggressive line on a dry board. I would have gone for a XC, X to see how the villain reacts OTT. If villain checks the turn then we should fire the river. If villain bets the turn we can fold OR we can X fold OTR.

AS PLAYED: I think we need to be shoving this RIVER. X/C isn't an option and X/F is bad after we decide to take this aggressive line.
 
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Wed Mar 05, 2014, 06:55 PM
(#4)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
To call a flop raise, I think his range will pocket pairs, Tx, 5x and maybe big Aces that dont want to fold yet. Calling turn cbet significantly strengthens his range IMO. Tx, 55/99 and higher pocket pairs. Perhaps AKs sticks around after floating flop and turning more equity with spades and overcards.
I second barrel to wash out all the Ax hands that, I'm sure are a lot on 2NL. Totally agree his range stenghtened a lot when he called OTT and I was sure I was beat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
I'm not sure what worse hands will call a shove, and if we bet we have to shove, if we check, I dont know if we can call a shove. I ran some ranges through Equilab and it suggests we will often be good on this board run-out.
I'm (also) positive a shove will not be called by worst, maybe 55, but thats it. But I wouldn't mind taken the pot without extra value. Question is, what hands will fold if we shove... 55, 99. maybe JJ, 88. If you could do the calcs, please do!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
IMO, your line OTF isn't good. You're taking a very aggressive line on a dry board. I would have gone for a XC, X to see how the villain reacts OTT. If villain checks the turn then we should fire the river. If villain bets the turn we can fold OR we can X fold OTR.

AS PLAYED: I think we need to be shoving this RIVER. X/C isn't an option and X/F is bad after we decide to take this aggressive line.
I toke the aggressive line because it was a dry board, does that make sence? I was trying to rep at least an overpair.



I'm glad you both left "the shove" open as an option. That means my shove wasn't totally crazy after all.
 
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Wed Mar 05, 2014, 07:42 PM
(#5)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkleefstra View Post
I toke the aggressive line because it was a dry board, does that make sence? I was trying to rep at least an overpair.
To answer your question in an honest way, NO it doesn't make sense to take an aggressive line on a dry board with 77. I would do this with Tx and pocket 5s. And maybe an overpair, but you don't have an overpair! So what you've done is turned a value hand, such as 77 into a bluff here by XR, B, and now OTR you have to shove. I would have shoved the river regardless of the T coming. So with 77 here... you may as well made this same play with napkins. Just my opinion.

You could have XR the flop with 77 then X'd back the turn but I'm still not a fan.
 
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Thu Mar 06, 2014, 01:20 AM
(#6)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Hey Ray (haha that rhymes),

to answer your questions directly:

1) I like pre against an unknown Not a big fan of postflop though. There isn't much value from worse hands to be had past the flop, as everything that calls your turnbet will most likely have you beat. Hence you are sort of trying to force realizing your equity better against overcard type hands OTF which may work quite often, but also exposes you to effectively investing/losing more money with a marginal hand that should not seek to build such a big pot without a specific read-based reason. I would just check/call flop and re-evaluate turn card + action.

2) The only option I see now is check/folding as I don't expect villain to be folding much better now that he called twice. Trying to represent a boat or trips on a paired board usually backfires especially at microstakes where people will just happily call you down with their overpairs. Also in case he got to the river with A high he should be more than happy to check those back a lot.


Live Trainer



 
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Thu Mar 06, 2014, 01:38 AM
(#7)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I am giving up river as well.
Even if they decide to call flop with overcards just to see a turn, they are definitely going to fold on your turn bet.
Also not a lot of 5x or worse pocket pairs is in their range, they will probably fold turn with those.
So Check/Fold.
 
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Thu Mar 06, 2014, 03:14 AM
(#8)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Thanks all.

In this hand, I toke an (for me) exceptional aggressive line. I sometimes go crazy all of a sudden and often get into tricky spots but well that's what you get with aggressive play and I need to get better in them. I thought this was a good spot to max my aggression but turns out is wasn't... although.... he folded to my shove, but I'm pretty sure I got lucky that he folded the best hand.
 
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Thu Mar 06, 2014, 05:08 AM
(#9)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkleefstra View Post
Thanks all.

In this hand, I toke an (for me) exceptional aggressive line. I sometimes go crazy all of a sudden and often get into tricky spots but well that's what you get with aggressive play and I need to get better in them. I thought this was a good spot to max my aggression but turns out is wasn't... although.... he folded to my shove, but I'm pretty sure I got lucky that he folded the best hand.
Hi, aggresor-style-master here

even i dont think dis iz good agressive line to take, cuz u still have some showdown value in case he is tight and wont bet..and ofc u r not getting to fold anything that u can beat

instead i would do diz with some gutshot than this.. as with gutshot u haz 4 outs to possibly nuts, but with 77 only 2 outs and especially if he haz A5... than u haz even more than 4 outs with goodshotz
 

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