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25 NL Zoom 6 Max All In Pre Range's?

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25 NL Zoom 6 Max All In Pre Range's? - Thu Mar 06, 2014, 05:03 PM
(#1)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
What would you go all in pre with at 25 NL zoom?i know AA and KK but what about say JJ ,QQ & AK against reg's and against unknown's??
how much of a sample size would you be happy with on someone to shove JJ?
 
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Thu Mar 06, 2014, 10:23 PM
(#2)
Sugartilts's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 5
At zoom i would shove QQ + the problem is little information on other players, and if they are 3 betting or even 4 betting they are super strong. AK is a problem hand i am finding now, i just call a 3 bet at most with it.

Just my thoughts still a noob myself
 
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Thu Mar 06, 2014, 11:06 PM
(#3)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
It all depends on positions and who you are up against.

There are situations where you can fistpump get in TT, and others where you should be snap folding QQ.

ie With, JJ, I would be 4b/calling it in BTN vs SB if the SB is an aggressive regular.

Last edited by birdayy; Thu Mar 06, 2014 at 11:27 PM..
 
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Fri Mar 07, 2014, 10:18 AM
(#4)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
i'm finding AK a huge problem,like if a "nit" 4bet me, I would maybe call, but most likely fold. but against someone you have an alright sized sample, should I be 4bet shoving when i'm in late position and they are in the blind's or on the button?i say 4bet shove because if you just 4bet and they call and you've missed,it sucks ass!!
should i also do this with JJ and QQ??
 
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Fri Mar 07, 2014, 10:51 AM
(#5)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
No offence but it sounds as if you aren't ready for 25nl.

Move down and get some more experience.
 
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Fri Mar 07, 2014, 03:09 PM
(#6)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
at the lower zoom limits the all in pre range's are super tight,i've played them for age's.i'm doing fine at 25 NL but i was looking for advice on the all in pre flop spot's because at 10 NL and lower even against reg's they would only go all in with AA or KK.
like im just wondering how much to adjust because i dont know
 
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Fri Mar 07, 2014, 03:15 PM
(#7)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
what stake's do you play birdayy?
 
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Fri Mar 07, 2014, 09:39 PM
(#8)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingreigns View Post
what stake's do you play birdayy?
Mainly 25nl deep and 50nl.
 
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Fri Mar 07, 2014, 09:49 PM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
I'm in agreement with bird regarding positions and reads. The old "it depends" cliché is true, I'm afraid.
That said, I'm usually happy to stack off AK/JJ+ 100b deep versus just about anyone, even at 10NL. I'm sure stack-off ranges are even wider at 25NL+, particularly in button/blind battles.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Fri Mar 07, 2014, 11:13 PM
(#10)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
For example in this situation I was happy getting 99 in.

 
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Sat Mar 08, 2014, 08:36 AM
(#11)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hey kingreigns


Am still at 10nl, but a while ago I put together a list of a bunch of spots from Live Training vids involving AK here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post

Some Special Stuff for AK on the button

Normally, we're supposed to call behind with AK rather than 3-bet, so tight players won't fold out hands AK dominates like AQ, AJ, KQ, etc. But a lot of the exceptions to the rule can come up when we hold AK in the button.

1. 3-betting into weaker players, for value (even if they're utg)
- see IDing the Regulars (Oct. 4, 2012) @3:16

2. 3-betting into loose players, for value (default assumption for a cut-off raiser)
- see Preflop Aggression (Dec. 19, 2012) @7:48

3. Squeezing into limpers, for value
- the one example from Live Training happened to be from the blinds, but Gareth said he'd play it the same way in position
- see Adventures in 2nl Zoom (Sept. 12, 2012) @34:36 (from the sb)
- exception - if the players are tight
- and beware those limp-reraisers ... y'all know who I mean :/

4. 4-betting cold into a loose 3-bettor, for value
- the example from Live Training is from the blinds, but one of the reasons given for cold 4-betting was that the 3-bettor was on the button. So if the assumption was made that he was 3-betting wider, maybe it'd be the same for the button if the cut-off was a maniac? Not sure about this one, but thought it'd be important to include jic?
- see Read that Hand @6:47

5. 4-betting into 3-bettors from the blinds (willing to get stacks in pre-flop, unless the villain is tight)
- sb - see MicroZOOMing (Aug. 30, 2012) @13:58
- bb - see Four the Win @3:47

6. 5-betting into a loose 4-bettor (the default assumption for a cut-off player)
- see Preflop Aggression (Dec. 19, 2012) @10:48

7. 4-betting into a squeezer, after calling behind an open-raiser
- Discussion: see Preflop Aggression (Dec. 19, 2012) @4:34

Guess I've sort of been using that guide for most non-AA/KK hands as well - like, adjusting the tightness/looseness of my range based on the tightness/looseness of the player? At least that's what I've been trying to do, but a couple of days ago I was doing some hand history reviews and it looks like my ranging has gotten a bit off - might take a second look at these clips myself during the week


There also the PSO podcast that's doing a special episode on dealing with AK next month, and they're giving away tickets to people who submit questions if the question gets used on the show. And they always have a cool guest-star - maybe this is the kind of question they're looking for? Such nice prizes too :

PSO Podcast - Win Tickets


How you finding 25nl otherwise? Very different from 10nl?
 
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Sat Mar 08, 2014, 06:18 PM
(#12)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
hmm , i guess i've just been a bit of a pre flop all in nit so.i'll start opening up with QQ and JJ and AK.i think my bad all in pre spots at 10 NL had me a bit scared!!

birdayy, that 99 hand.why did you decide to go with that?is the villain like super loose with a crazy 4bet stat or whats the story?

cheers trustysam,i'll be sure to have a look at all the video's over the next few days.i know what your saying about adjusting to the tightness looseness of players,like i do 4bet in spots i think are good but i've been very nitty when it come's to say 4 or 5 betting all in with JJ , QQ and AK
 
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Sat Mar 08, 2014, 06:20 PM
(#13)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
cheers for the reply's lad,the advice is much appreciated
 
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Sat Mar 08, 2014, 10:04 PM
(#14)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingreigns View Post
birdayy, that 99 hand.why did you decide to go with that?is the villain like super loose with a crazy 4bet stat or whats the story?
With a cold caller in the SB, the BB should be squeezing very wide from a theory perspective. This is because the btn has a very wide range, and the sb would 3b very strong hands, so that leaves the SB with hands like QJo and 66 which will fold to a 3b (or call and x/fold the flop).

The btn knows i'll be squeezing super wide, so he in turn will 4b lighter. I then know that he knows etc. so I shove.
 
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Tue Mar 11, 2014, 09:09 PM
(#15)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
That's a pretty sweet play,i might go back to 10 nl for awhile.i wouldn't feel too comfortable doing a play like that at 25 nl for the sake of BRM.i haven't been at 25 nl that long really.i would be fine with doing a play like that against a player who i have a decent sample on that opens wide and doesn't fold to may 3bets that i think is playing 4bet or fold,well i'll try it out.

i do use 4bet bluff's occasionally against certain players but ive never 5bet jammed with something like 99.if the spots come up i'll be willing to try it with TT - QQ .i'll stop my AK nittyness too
 
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Sun Mar 16, 2014, 07:33 AM
(#16)
MrFlopes's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
With a cold caller in the SB, the BB should be squeezing very wide from a theory perspective. This is because the btn has a very wide range, and the sb would 3b very strong hands, so that leaves the SB with hands like QJo and 66 which will fold to a 3b (or call and x/fold the flop).

The btn knows i'll be squeezing super wide, so he in turn will 4b lighter. I then know that he knows etc. so I shove.
What to expect him to call your all in with? If you put a calling range like 77+,ATs+,AQo+ you still only have 45% equity. Is he calling it that light for that play to be profitable or am i doing the math wrong?
 
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Sun Mar 16, 2014, 08:56 AM
(#17)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
If some one is 4bet folding a ton you can 3bet 5bet shove more hands. I cant see 99 wanting to get called by any of his range.
 
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Fri Jul 04, 2014, 01:16 PM
(#18)
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
Belated response, however, i was just reading this thread and would advise only stacking off with KK+ for between 50 and 100 BB's. Under 50 QQ is playable. Although zoom can be insane, most of the time with QQ you are beaten. I have learned this to my cost.It's zoom. Just move on and play another pot.
 

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