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NL2 6max, JQo , was this a corect play ?

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NL2 6max, JQo , was this a corect play ? - Sun Mar 09, 2014, 02:18 PM
(#1)
Luniaril's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 33
I tried to steal and squeeze on button, and got donked by villain with 18/9 stats in (11) hands. i felt like villain is just using scare cards to push me out, i had second best pair so didnt showed any agression. but because the villains bet sizing was small i decided to flat and just gone to showdown. but still wondering was it a correct play ?

 
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Sun Mar 09, 2014, 03:59 PM
(#2)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
OK here is my analsys, will follow stage by stage, let you know how I would have played it.

PREFLOP

I would have liked a better hand to make your challenge with, after all if your opp is wild, you need to be tight. I wouldn't have played it, but lets assume I did and see what happens

FLOP

OK, this is an easy hand to make a judgement on. You need to be asking your opp a question "Do you have the ace?" - You have an over card, a straight draw and a flushdraw combined with broadway cards.

I would be happy to make a 1/2 pot C-bet here if my opp checks. If i get called, I am thinking either a draw or my opponent is trying to trap. If i get raised here, i fold. A check is also good but unless you hit a Jack or Queen (assuming it isnt a Jack of Spades) you need to check/fold the turn.

>>> OK, so he bets weak into the pot, and you called. Here you have 2 moves, a call or a raise. A call only works if you have decided he has you beat and you want to C/F the turn if you don't hit, otherwise I would raise my opponent here, show strength and punish him for his weak bet.

TURN

Great, this is no longer a decision for you, the board made it. The turn didn't help you and it possibly helped your opponent. Thats -2 for you, the C/F is the right move here

>> Your opp bet weak again, this shouldnt change anything at this point for you though, still a fold,you call however which doesn't do anything other than delay the inevitable since you can only improve to 2-pair or trip queens which whilst still being behind to a possible flush, is a 6 outer and around 13%.

RIVER

I wouldn't be here right now, I can't think my little Queen is any good and whoa, an Ace.
Early on, I might have thought an extra Ace discounts him having one but all it does here is remind me that I am having trouble getting away from my middle pair.

C/F all the way

>>> He showed JJ, whilst I am not surprised since I thought he had a pair based on his weak bets, the only thing I can think is that you would have got stronger value out of him if you raised his weak bets.

Since your hand was dominated on the flop, you really should have been focused on playing for the flop pot and pushing him off his hand. If he had a draw, you would have saved yourself a lot of pain fighting a made straight/flush and if he had a better hand, raising his weak bet would have resulted in a re-raise and given you your marching papers.

SUMMARY

Shouldn't have challenged him with QJo, when you did, the Ace/Spades should have factored into your play more and when your opponent bet into you with his weak bets you should have raised him and played for the flop-pot. Your best bet was to hope he had a draw or a weak hand and a strong bet by you represente the Ace.

Often when hands feel lackluster during the turn/river with check+check or low-bet+call it is because each player is hoping for an improvement to their hand and feels they aren't dominating. If you get an opponent that acts that way and you have position, you need to make them pay to try and pull a card that can help them.

I would have prefered to see you make less on the pot but get re-raised on the flop and fold.
 
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Sun Mar 09, 2014, 10:35 PM
(#3)
Built-byTilt's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 508
When you see these donk bets on dryish boards often times it is an opponent holding a marginal hand.You played the hand well, I'd even be tempted to raise his river bet as he will almost never have an Ace when he bets that small. Same with the flush, his bet OTT and OTR would have been bigger. Only problem with raising river is we could be value cutting ourselves if he's holding KQ.
 
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Sun Mar 09, 2014, 11:08 PM
(#4)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
You played it completely fine. Folding the turn with those pot odds would be a huge mistake, as would the river.
 
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Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:33 AM
(#5)
Luniaril's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 33
Thanks for the replies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by baud2death View Post
FLOP
>>> OK, so he bets weak into the pot, and you called. Here you have 2 moves, a call or a raise. A call only works if you have decided he has you beat and you want to C/F the turn if you don't hit, otherwise I would raise my opponent here, show strength and punish him for his weak bet.
My reason for not raising here was, when he bet 1/3 of the pot, that looked very weak so i didnt put his hand for any straight or flush draw, i would expect those hands to bet at least 1/2 or 2/3 pot, but since he call my button raise on BB, i was still concerned about Ax hands at that moment. thats why i only called to see the turn.

at the turn bet was so small. i was sure he didn't had flush, but still not excluded the Ax low kicker hands on my mind. the bet was too small to fold so i call.

on the river with that min bet showed he didnt had Ax either, that narrowed my hand reading to marginal pocket pairs, and there is no chance to fold to that pot odds. so i called again.

Last edited by Luniaril; Mon Mar 10, 2014 at 08:35 AM..
 
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Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:32 PM
(#6)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
With QJo, I think both raising and calling on the BTN are both fine. I'd prefer raising to 0.10 in order to get the blinds to go away and put more pressure on the short stack that limps.

PostF: When the villain donks into us ATW, I like your play of just calling. I don't think raising at any point of this hand accomplishes anything. We aren't going to get any value from worse. And we could be calling with the worse hand here.
 
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Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:20 PM
(#7)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Wouldn't play it any differently. Given the bet sizes and pot odds I'm calling down especially when the river is another Ace which makes it less likely they have an Ace.
 
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Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:33 PM
(#8)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
You played it completely fine. Folding the turn with those pot odds would be a huge mistake, as would the river.
Quoted for truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
Wouldn't play it any differently. Given the bet sizes and pot odds I'm calling down especially when the river is another Ace which makes it less likely they have an Ace.
More truth.

I think calling flop is standard. I'd fold turn if villain made a serious bet. Since he's just making weak blockers, I'm calling all the way.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:52 PM
(#9)
Luniaril's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 33
im glad i played the hand correctly thanks for all the comments
 

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