Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Tournament Section (MTTs & STTs) /

NLHE / JJ / How about the fold on the river ?

Old
Default
NLHE / JJ / How about the fold on the river ? - Tue Mar 11, 2014, 10:17 PM
(#1)
shynleigh355's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 57
Villain is a tight player and his 5x raise UTG could mean AA-TT,AKs-AQs, maybe AQo. His check on a kind of connected flop doesn't make me fell like AA or KK (could be, some players simply play differently their hands sometimes), and the same works for AQ, but it surely could be QQ or AK (don't know if he c-bets post flop). When he checks and mini-raises my bet (trying to protect my hand against AK or possible flush draws he chose not to semi-bluff), it either means QQQ, or, in last cases, a miss-click. I chose to call, since folding, especially with the odds and the small raise, could be bad for my table image. Was this call bad? And the fold on the river? Could it mean some sort of medium pocket pair he turned into a bluff or it is definitely QQQ ?

Note: sorry, I had problems putting the replay, I hadn't seen this yet. Here it goes:


Last edited by shynleigh355; Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:45 AM..
 
Old
Default
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:08 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
what were the stacks?
What were the villain's table images?
Had they made any out of line plays?
What type of tourney is it?
What are the bets and pot-size on every street?
What are the blinds/antes?

A min-raise may not be a mis-click. Many uninformed players do it all the time.

Please answer these, as you can get a multitude of answers depending on your reply.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 05:38 AM
(#3)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I rarely make exact hand guessings but they have to have QQ there.
They way it played on every street, it's the only hand that makes sense beside maybe 88.
It could be a weird bluff, but that's rather unlikely because they checked turn.
And the river overbets are usually value bets, so overall I think your fold is good.
 
Old
Default
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 06:32 AM
(#4)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
As for me, his hand looks like FD OTF, and a flush OTR. I wouldn't pay such over bet OTR with second pair.
 
Old
Default
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 10:49 AM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi shynleigh355!

With JJ, I get a large open from UTG to 100 (standard would be to 3BB+1BB for each limper or 60). There are two ways that I can play this preflop and it will depend on a read of the opp. If the opp is known to be very loose, I'll 3-bet to 3X the previous bet (300). If the opp is known to be tight or is an unknown, I'll call and hope to flop a J.

The flop brings one over and the opp checks. I'm going to make a value bet here and the key is the sizing of it. With one opp in the pot, a standard bet is 1/2 pot, so I will bet 115. I want to keep all of my bets and raises standard, as this helps to conceal the strength of my hand.

I now get min check/raised. A draw is most likely check/calling here, so most likely the opp has Qx or better and due to this, I need to fold, as I'm behind.

If I saw the flop (which I would not), this now pairs the board and completes the flush, so if they did have the draw, I'm also now beat. Due to this, I'm checking and hoping that the river is a J... because it's the only way that I'm putting another chip into the pot. I'm definitely not calling an overbet on the river.

When playing, I don't want to put opps on a single hand, I want to range the opponent and to see what my hand does against their entire range. With 2 pair on the board and a completed flush... unless this is a total bluff (unlikely), their entire range beats me. Qx, 8x, 5x, clubs.

The goal in a tourney is to gain chips. My table image is what it is.. I do not want to do something to try to portray an image where I know I'm losing chips in doing so. If I'm beat, I need to fold.. not hand chips to an opponent.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com