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25NL ZOOM, T9s in CO tough desicions...

25NL ZOOM, T9s in CO tough desicions... - Wed Mar 19, 2014, 12:49 PM
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274

I don't know if flatting here in the CO is standard or not but I find these situations kind of tough sometimes.

MP(19): 47/35/1.3 (possibly a weak player 96bb stack)
BTN(7): 14/0/0.0
SB(61): 23/20/3.0 (has never had an opportunity to squeeze)
BB(0): Unknown

PF: I don't know if cold calling here in the CO is ok with these types of medium/high suited connectors. I would much prefer to be on the BTN... We get squeezed here and I decide to flat IP.
OTF: Though spot! The original raiser checks and now MP bets...So once again cold calling seems bad here, especially if the SB is looking to XR this flop.

Main question: Should I be folding these types of hands in the CO from a MP open?

Wed Mar 19, 2014, 01:53 PM
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
PF their is nothing wrong with flatting the MP open with suited connectors sometimes, nothing wrong with folding either. Versus the squeeze I would probably be folding here but calling might be ok.

OTF this board is pretty close to the type of flop we would be hoping for if we are going into a 3b pot MW with T9cc so we have to at least call this flop bet. If u get x/r its a fold but seeing a turn would be pretty nice with the SD and backdoor club draw.

Make the straight OTT with the 8c and got it in, very nice.
Wed Mar 19, 2014, 04:04 PM
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
Preflop can be argued and I am for calling, especially if stacks were relatively deeper.
But since the squeezer is not that aggressive preflop, I choose to fold more often.
Now flop is a standard fold for me.
It probably hits both villain's range and we have 8 or even less outs.
And even if a K comes we aren't guaranteed in getting the money in.
Wed Mar 19, 2014, 04:27 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
It's pretty close, but I fold pre. You're gonna get squeezed pretty often, and even when you don't, T9s can be a problematic hand. It has a habit of making the sucker end of straights, so it sometimes suffers from reverse implied odds. (It's really hard to get stacks in on KQJ unless villain has AT). In the CO, you might also have bad (relative) position post-flop, so can get squeezed post-flop by the button or the blinds.
On the button, rather than the cutoff, I'd be more likely to call, since you are at least guaranteed absolute position post-flop. It's also more of a call on the button if the blinds are loose/passive, as they won't make your life difficult, and they improve your pot/implied odds with draws.

Bracelet Winner
Wed Mar 19, 2014, 05:47 PM
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
I also like fold pre or if villain is opening wide we can put in occasional bluff 3bet.

I read a discussion somewhere on 2+2 about calling in position with suited connectors, i kinda agree about avoiding heads-up pots vs TAGregs because we are going to miss so often and our range is crushed already preflop. I suppose if you know that villain plays strictly fit or fold, we may call with these hands in position and float good flops even with complete air.

Generally, i prefer recreational players to be involved in these pots also, so if we had TAG opener and then rec player flats, then we already might get more profitable situations, if we hit flop hard.
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:13 AM
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Really don't think the flop is close. There's only a PSB remaining OTT and we are only drawing (not cleanly) to a straight or a backdoor (non *****d) flush draw.

Fold flop. I'd rather 3b pre.
Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:26 AM
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Preflop we have a pretty straightforward flat call I think. Our alternative is to fold. I don't see any value in three-betting in this situation. The reasons to flat call are twofold, one we have a good, playable hand versus a weak player, two we are not expecting to be squeezed from players behind.

Once we face the squeeze I think we need to fold. Nothing really adds up to a call to me. We made an exploitive flat call in the first place, our hand isn't going to play particularly well once we call because of the shallow stacks, strong range of the squeezer, the dominating range of the caller (ie the called can have JT/QT/AT and A9 stuff.

Anyways, we call the three-bet. I think this is losing some money but it is hard to be losing a ton of money on the call.

OTF this board is pretty close to the type of flop we would be hoping for if we are going into a 3b pot MW with T9cc so we have to at least call this flop bet.
This is mistaken. This board demolishes the squeezer's range and our K outs are not clear whatsoever. Besides a K being out of the deck often from SQZ's AK combinations, the weak player can have plenty of TX, meaning we're calling to chop. We won't get to see the river often when we call flop, we won't have the nuts on the 8s or Ks. This is just a bad flop for our hand in this situation.

So I like the preflop call, I think that's the best play here by a lot, but I disagree with how we proceeded from there. Don't get wed to these pretty hands. Pretty hands, like pretty girls, don't always make the best of wives .
Fri Mar 21, 2014, 10:50 AM
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
Don't get wed to these pretty hands. Pretty hands, like pretty girls, don't always make the best of wives .

Thanks Gareth!

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