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HM2 icm

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HM2 icm - Sun Mar 23, 2014, 07:30 AM
(#1)
adsthepro777's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 630
Any Holdem Manager geniuses out there know where the icm tool is on HM2?

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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 07:45 AM
(#2)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
The only ICM tool I know of in HEM is Sit n Go Wizard. There's a free trial but you have to pay extra for the full version.


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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 08:05 AM
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adsthepro777's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 630
Aaaah that sucks, best start my trial then haha

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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 08:22 AM
(#4)
adsthepro777's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 630
Just to double check, is nash the same as ICM?


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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 08:32 AM
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Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Any times I've used these tools it gives me unexpected results. I suspect the software is only as good as the info you feed it. I've learned my shoving/ calling range by trial and error.

Nash is just a version of ICM but there are other ways to model the results. I've never went that deep TBH and you only really have to study it for the regs you face the most. I just look over hand histories and see what they shoved and in what position but you find that most regs have the same basic ranges. I don't need a calculator for that.


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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 11:46 AM
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wiltshireman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,570
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xxx Moved xxx


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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 05:14 PM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsthepro777 View Post
Just to double check, is nash the same as ICM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post
Nash is just a version of ICM
Er... not exactly, no.

The Nash Equilibrium, as related to poker, shows ranges of hands that can be un-exploitably shoved (or can call shoves) given certain stack sizes.

ICM is a model for working out the expected value in dollar terms, based on the value of the chips in a tournament.

As an example of how Nash and ICM are not the same...

If you have 10bb and it's folded to you in the SB, then you can make an un-exploitable Nash shove with a range of hands that includes stuff like 53s. You won't lose chips in the long run even if villain calls with the un-exploitable Nash calling range. (You'll break even, or gain a fraction of a blind, on average in the long run if villain calls "correctly").

But now imagine that same scenario but you're on the bubble, and two or three of the players that already folded have 2-3bb. It could be ICM suicide to ship 53s for 10bb (and risk your tourney life) when you could virtually guarantee yourself some cold hard cash by folding.

i.e. Shoving Nash ranges might earn you a tenth of a blind (so it's "profitable" in chipEV terms), but there might be more ICM cash value by folding and laddering up.

I love Nash charts, but ICM is both more complex and more important.


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