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50NL titled shot AQo bricked nut flush draw bluff

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50NL titled shot AQo bricked nut flush draw bluff - Sun Mar 23, 2014, 04:31 PM
(#1)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
This was a hand I played when absolutely tilted.

Would like an assessment of how I played it.

Pre I elected to call rather than squeeze, its a very playable hand, and I didnt really want to get raised off it.

Flop I think can be either a flat or a raise, but I think flatting is fine because I have position and I can use that to my advantage on future streets.

Checks to me on the turn and I bet because I have the nut flush draw but no showdown value.

River, I can only win the hand by bluffing, was the bet big enough to get him to fold marginal hands?

 
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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 04:50 PM
(#2)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Am not surprised to hear the villain tanked for a really long time - your bet looks like it was for value.


Not sure if you'll find this helpful or just cheesey, but sometimes I'll alter the hand history so i can look at my play from the villain's perspective to see what my play might have looked like to them - I called up your hand and did that with yours, jic:




Wasn't sure how to switch the 'hero'/'villain' tags - I can click the button to show your names instead if you prefer

Last edited by TrustySam; Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 04:53 PM..
 
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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 04:53 PM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
< never played 50NL, so take this opinion with pinch of salt.

For me, pre is fine, but I'm not sure about the turn, and I don't really like the river play. Villain's line is consistent with pot-controlling a king, or maybe QQ/JJ.
You say you have no showdown value, but you have "nut air" (you beat all airballs), with a bunch of outs on the turn. I think taking the free card is possibly best. When he calls your turn bet, the river card doesn't seem like a great one to bluff, as Kx is always calling, so I'd probably check back and give up, sometimes chopping with AxQc and beating AxJc. I suppose you could bomb the river to rep a boat, but I would presume you usually raise flopped sets, so if villain thinks you just floated with a draw, he's snapping you off.


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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 04:54 PM
(#4)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I'm not sure what you're trying to get the villain to fold here... He's only going to fold out his draws but you have his draws crushed.

I don't like your bet OTT either. I would opt to check back the turn.

Here's how I would have played this hand, passive approach would have been to just call IP. and then check back OTR or FOLD.

Aggressive line would be to RAISE the villains cbet.
OTT: if we bet again, then we're emptying the clip OTR no matter what!
OTT: if we check the turn, we check back when we miss and we bet when we hit!
 
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Sun Mar 23, 2014, 05:08 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
The only thing that *might* have given me pause was *maybe* your turn bet sizing? IF a flopped flush might have bet larger on the turn to try to get stacks in by the river, and a set might have bet larger on the turn for protection?

And AK might have squeezed pre-flop.

On the other hand the villain's hand wasn't super strong or anything, and his check-call made that clear.

On the other hand his check-call made that clear, and there were a couple of combo draws and lesser pairs you might have bet the turn with.


Am not surprised the villain used up his time bank ... bet it was close - wish it had gone the other way for you
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 12:02 AM
(#6)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
I don't think we have much fold equity with a normal bet size here.

If you are going to bluff I would shove river.

We block AK, KQ and the nut flush so it seems like a pretty good combo to do it with.
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:17 AM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Hi bhoy,

Preflop flat is the best choice imo, our hand isn't strong enough to be 3-betting an UTG open and UTG+1 call without reads, really.

Flop and turn are fine. Once he calls the turn, I think bluffing the river isn't going to show a profit. He's not folding a K and he's going to show up with AK/KQ a lot here imo. We are targeting QQ/JJ with a club to fold basically, but the villain may find those calls given that he probably excludes AK+ from our range and assumes we would check down KQ/KJ a lot, he may reason we have the naked Ac enough that he can snap us off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
was the bet big enough to get him to fold marginal hands?
I hate answering this question in a way. The answer is yes, sure... but that's not good enough. He has to hold enough of said marginal hands for the play to be profitable as well.

So we need to evaluate what the villain's range is to get to the river taking the actions he did through out the hand. And if the villain is ranging us (assume yes at 50NL) then what is our perceived range? And in light of how his range stacks up to our perceived range, how much of his range fits into the marginal/might fold and will fold categories. Those are the target hands for our bluff. Since we hold the Ac we know he wasn't c/c the turn on the nut flush draw, and all draws in his range that c/c the turn also have a pair (KxQc/QQ/JJ). All non-draws that c/c the turn have enough showdown value to c/c blank rivers (AA/AK/KQ). So over all I don't think we'll succeed here too often.


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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:31 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
I don't think we have much fold equity with a normal bet size here.

If you are going to bluff I would shove river.

We block AK, KQ and the nut flush so it seems like a pretty good combo to do it with.
I still don't think it's good. Having a blocker doesn't negate something from being so.

There are still 9 combos of AK and 9 of KQ, while only 3 of QQ and 6 of JJ. We need the villain to be c/folding hands as strong as KQ at least to make this bluff shove, and we don't know that here readless. And if villain knows we're on tilt, even less chance he's folding.


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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 01:09 PM
(#9)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Thanks Dave and everyone else too.

I mentioned it in the title that this hand was played while on tilt, which is true, but I was stilly trying to think my way through the hand when I was playing it. So to hear that I played most of it ok is nice, on the river, I just really didn't want to lose the pot (I know that's not a good reason to bet) but I did think there were some marginal hands that could fold to a bet, but, I take your point Dave that the villain has to be folding enough to make it a profitable move.

The one street I was sure about betting was the turn because I had a tonne of equity there and if I hit then I had built the pot. That said, having built the pot, and missed, I should have just cut my losses and left it at that.

I doubt I will be playing that level again for quite some time (Mainly because I contacted Stars and got them to remove my ability to join that stake level the night after that hand was played) but its another one in the knowledge bank.
 

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