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2NL 6mZoom Shove any good?

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2NL 6mZoom Shove any good? - Sun Mar 23, 2014, 06:21 PM
(#1)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328


His call of my 3bet, combined with his call on the flop made me believe I had the best hand. Maybe he was slowplaying QQ/KK/AA/88/jj/33 but I think he would be happy to shove OTF to my bet.

Since he had a potbet left, I shoved OTT in stead of bet.

Will this play be +EV often enough?
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:08 AM
(#2)
Rogger1999's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 489
why do u bet 0.16 into 0.09? do you always raise like this?
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:55 AM
(#3)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
I raised 0.16 into 0.06 ...

and yes, always raise like this.

If the bet was 0.09, I would have made it more like 0.25
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:20 AM
(#4)
Rogger1999's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 489
I mean 0.09 pot....
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:32 AM
(#5)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogger1999 View Post
I mean 0.09 pot....
Uhmmm... looks like a total normal 3bet to me. May even be slightly bigger.
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:02 AM
(#6)
Rogger1999's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 489
I was just curious since it is 2.6x to his raise or 1.8x to pot, quite unusual to me.
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:34 AM
(#7)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Yep, 3 bet bigger preflop.
Why do you want to shove turn? You will only get action from hands that beat you and depending on villain in think he can have Jx and definitely 33,88 in his 3bet calling range.

Last edited by CrazYJohnnie; Mon Mar 24, 2014 at 09:37 AM..
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:58 AM
(#8)
nonex truth's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
If I haven't marked you as super agressive a potsize turn bet on 2nl 6-max screams TPTK or better. I would fold my Jx (witch is good for your EV), but only call with overpairs or better (witch is bad for your EV). You risk 97 cent to win 75 cent. Against me your turnbet would be -EV, since after a SB raise I hold only good drawing Jx combos unless your 3betting stats told me: 4bet this guy!

But there are looooots of callings stations out there on 2nl. So it may be +EV. I wouldn't make a habit out of it, cause it is definetly -EV on higher levels.
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:05 AM
(#9)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
Yep, 3 bet bigger preflop.
Why do you want to shove turn? You will only get action from hands that beat you and depending on villain in think he can have Jx and definitely 33,88 in his 3bet calling range.
I should only get action from better... called and lost.

But to answer your question, johnnie, I shoved because any normal sized bet would be half his remaining stack so or he shoves on me and I will be potcommited, or he folds anyway.
If I check OTT, he will prob shove or see a free river. I'm not sure if I can call a shove and I certainly don't want him to see a free river.
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:17 AM
(#10)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonex truth View Post
If I haven't marked you as super agressive a potsize turn bet on 2nl 6-max screams TPTK or better. I would fold my Jx (witch is good for your EV), but only call with overpairs or better (witch is bad for your EV). You risk 97 cent to win 75 cent. Against me your turnbet would be -EV, since after a SB raise I hold only good drawing Jx combos unless your 3betting stats told me: 4bet this guy!

But there are looooots of callings stations out there on 2nl. So it may be +EV. I wouldn't make a habit out of it, cause it is definetly -EV on higher levels.

Tnx for being on this forum !

I absolutely agree this hand is very -EV on higher levels but on 2NL/5NL I'm not sure mainly because he doesn't top off.
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:18 AM
(#11)
666bonez187's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 745
i think this is pretty standard, especially them being short stacked
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:54 AM
(#12)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Im never saying that you wont get called by A high from random player.

As played, see bigger sizing pre would give you better turn sizing, you could pot it to set him all in. Obviously, this is standard anyway and never checking turn because of draws.
 
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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 04:14 PM
(#13)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi all,

Yikes, I know 2NL is good, but man, I'd be surprised if this bet is +EV. What are we targeting? A8? No, it can't be that good... if it is, then villain will have a ton of Jx combos as well and we are getting called off by all those. JJ+ is going to be prone to 4-betting preflop and/or raising the flop. I think his made hands that make it to the turn are going to be Jx heavy with a few set slow plays, and I'm not expecting a 2nl random oddstacker to fold these. Maybe we get him off a draw, maybe he calls off with draws (which is good for us with 1 card to come) but there's many more made and combos than Jx, so I think shoving is too thin.

Preflop sizing is a bit small for 67bb's, and since I think he's likely calling too loose we should be raising more like .20c here.


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Last edited by TheLangolier; Mon Mar 24, 2014 at 04:17 PM..
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:42 AM
(#14)
FireMedic815's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 2,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogger1999 View Post
I was just curious since it is 2.6x to his raise or 1.8x to pot, quite unusual to me.
Are you more of a tourney player rogger? I think his 3 bet was a bit on the smaller side, I think in a tourney they might 3 bet to .14 or so. Vs a late open in the sb with TT I would have made it a minimum of .18 and if he had a habit of stealing a lot I might even go to .24 or .26 with his stack size planning on insta calling a 4 bet shove.
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 09:53 AM
(#15)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireMedic815 View Post
Are you more of a tourney player rogger? I think his 3 bet was a bit on the smaller side, I think in a tourney they might 3 bet to .14 or so. Vs a late open in the sb with TT I would have made it a minimum of .18 and if he had a habit of stealing a lot I might even go to .24 or .26 with his stack size planning on insta calling a 4 bet shove.
I also think he is more into MTT's.

I am surprised thou that everybody is advizing a bigger 3betsize. I was pretty confidant, 2.7x-3x was a pretty normal 3bet-size (as most do on 2NL). Guess I have to adjust my buttons.
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:33 AM
(#16)
FireMedic815's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 2,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkleefstra View Post
I also think he is more into MTT's.

I am surprised thou that everybody is advizing a bigger 3betsize. I was pretty confidant, 2.7x-3x was a pretty normal 3bet-size (as most do on 2NL). Guess I have to adjust my buttons.
I don't think you need to adjust, 3x the 2 bet is pretty standard... if they are doing it lite most of the time you can go a bit bigger for value imo, 3x his 2 bet would have been .18
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:06 PM
(#17)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I like to make my 3Bet sizings significantly larger when I'm Out of Position for two reasons.
  • My range for 3Betting OOP is going to be generally tighter than 3Betting IP
  • Making a small 3Bet gives the villain a great price to call fairly wide and have position on us

My typical sizing is 3.5x OOP assuming an effective stack of 100BB.
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:15 PM
(#18)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Adjusted my buttons to 8.5 , 9 and 10 BB (and 15) , did a sessions and liked it.

Thanks all
 

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