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10NL ZOOM, AKs 4B back raise shove

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10NL ZOOM, AKs 4B back raise shove - Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:11 PM
(#1)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Well, it looks like I've developed a serious case of FPS at 10NL ZOOM... I don't even know how to play AK anymore!

UTG(38):25/19/3.0
BB (4):50/50/2.0

Both players are relatively unknown. And all other players sitting at the table are unknowns as well.

My thought process was as follows: If I shove, I've disguised my hand and could get called by anything that we're flipping against as well as AQs. I thought my shove here would look something like KQs, 99-77... and if they fold I pick up the dead money.

I'm guessing I should have just flatted the squeeze here? or maybe folded...? Maybe shoving is optimal?


Last edited by dirt eh; Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 10:28 PM..
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:23 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I think with position we can easily flat this squeeze as, given positions, he is representing a strong hand. I know that there are some squeeze happy villains at 10NL who do it to stupid levels but I dunno if these villains fit that bill exactly.

The only hand we absolutely dont want to see of course is AA, it's one of the hands that can call this action, along with KK which we have some more outs against, and QQ which we are flipping against.

All that said, I personally would call, I dont think the shove is horrific, but position means we can play this hand profitably by calling too.
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:32 PM
(#3)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
It looks like you have AA, why are we value shipping here with no meaningful stats yet on the CO VS BU VS BB 3bet hand you went for a min 4bet with the intention of value 4bet/folding? I still cant get my head around that hand as we had no reads and we was 4betting to get called by AQ KQ.

BB is repping more strength here than that other hand, put yourself in his shoes do you expect him to jam 99 with no history or stats?
 
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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 06:00 PM
(#4)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Mike, the hand that you're talking about is completely different than this hand. In the other hand I raised... in this hand i'm cold calling a raise... totally different.

What do you mean him jamming 99? Do you mean him calling with 99? I'M JAMMING. And I don't think that when I make this play that it looks like I have AA. It looks like I have KQs, 99, 88, 77.

When I jam here, it looks really weak IMO. Obviously I'm going to get called by AA, KK, QQ but I figured I can shove, pick up the 25bb that are in the pot and sometimes get called by worse/hands that I'm flipping against. Maybe I'm missing something here but lets look at the effective stack sizes compared to the pot once we see the flop.

OTF: $3.53
Effective stacks will be: $8.92

So if we cold call, what are we hoping for? A, K or two clubs? Ace flops or King flops we get no action from QQ-99...

Lets look at the same hand vs. the same villains, different action...


Last edited by dirt eh; Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 10:29 PM..
 
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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 02:33 AM
(#5)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi dirt eh!

As played, I think you can go either way, calling the 3b or jamming. It depends on the villains and how comfortable you are playing spots like this postflop. 4betting is great because the only hand we really don't want to get called by is AA. Part of the strength of AK comes from gaining fold equity in spots like this. Your fold equity, and the money already in the pot make flipping profitable for you. Jamming will most likely get folds and since AK isn't a made hand, this is often a better result than seeing the flop and missing.

On the other hand, if we have a skill edge on the villains, seeing a flop can be safer and more profitable especially here where we have position on everyone and a playable hand with AKs. It is safer in that we can still fold on a bad flop. It is more profitable in that we can often gain at least one more street of value from the opponents. The drawback being that we quite often won't know where we stand postflop.

Without reads, I prefer to 4b. Firstly, it keeps things simple. Secondly, if we get looked up, it will demonstrate that our 4b range is wider than just "AA" which can be good in the long term against any regs paying attention. With reads, I prefer taking it postflop in an attempt to win a larger pot.

With all that said, I think you would have avoided this situation by 3betting rather than calling when the action first got to you. AKs is strong enough to 3b from any position. Raising will build the pot and most likely isolate the original raiser. If the bb cold 4bets, then it will be easier to put him on a stronger range of hands. Then we could call the 4b and reevaluate on the flop. We don't know enough about the bb to warrant jamming or folding and we still have postion and a premium hand.

PS: Only post one hand per thread. It gets confusing with several, especially when you manipulate the hh...

Roland GTX
 

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