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5nl FR Zoom - KK

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5nl FR Zoom - KK - Wed Mar 26, 2014, 08:14 AM
(#1)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

I may get slated for calling in position with KKs, but I believe, and read somewhere that flatting with KKs can be good (depending on the situation).

Villain's stats: 16/14/5.0 (45 hands, so not much of a sample size, apart from that he looks like he could become a SLAG - lol love that term)


So here I raise UTG+1 (already representing a strong holding). I then get 3bet by villain on SB for which I believe could mean he is very strong.

So I flat my KKs keeping his range that little bit wider, range including AK, QQ+ with one combo of KKs ---- possibly?

I also have position on villain

Once the flop comes (QQs just made a set), I just called down not really thinking. Now if villain has a range AK, QQ+ then I am pretty much beat, right? I don't believe that this villain would fire multiple barrels with AK when missed.

The question is should I have folded KKs say on the turn, to a turn bet, especially when he fires with aggression on all streets - building a pot, and his stats indicate that he not a maniac, and pretty much a TAG.



KKs is just one of those hands where I need to identify the right situation to fold the buggers, but part of the learning process for me is that I don't want to become too nitty.


Cheers,

Matt

Last edited by pullin1988; Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:46 AM..
 
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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:29 AM
(#2)
nonex truth's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
Flatting KK is ok. It prevents you from hitting a neckbreaking A on the flop, but makes it harder to extract value.

SLAG suggests a thinking player. Therefore depending on your VPIP, AF, F2CBET and WTSD% his 3betting-range could be much wider. But 16/14 is very nitty and I don't think nitties are widening up in any position under any circumstances. Your ranging preflop is perfect plausible. But I prefer to take TT and JJ into his range furthermore.

His AF 5.0 suggests he is cappable of threebarreling AK in this spot. In this case he would only fear AQ, QQ-AA and your range consists of plenty more including draws and weak pocketpairs. But I see him shoving the turn rather taking the non-scary max-value-line if this would be the case.

Quote:
I also have position on villain
Position isn't that relevant, if your range consists mainly of pockets and other WA/WBs.

Once he bets the 3rd street you only beat draws. But the only possible draw AsQs has showdown value and therefore wouldn't take a bluffing line (at least most of the time).

Folding on the turn is IMO way too nitty, but folding the river is mandatory.

Last edited by nonex truth; Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:38 AM.. Reason: wrote accidently turn instead of flop
 
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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:45 AM
(#3)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers nonex truth, thanks for the advice.
 
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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 12:34 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Hi pullin,

Preflop call is good imo. KK is strong enough to 4-bet, but when this nity guy 5-bets we are going to be in for a world of hurt. To absorb that hurt we need to get some nice value when he's in a world of hurt, but the 4-bet may just shake too much of that off... and he's already on a very narrow range I presume based on the positions here.


Post flop play is fine. From a frequency based perspective we should call the river to avoid being exploited vs. many villain types, except I think for nits like this since he is almost assuredly not barreling 3 streets enough and not bluffing this river enough with busted draws (AsKs basically) to exploit us folding this. If we think he's got AQ in his range here, we should call down imo, but that seems debatable as a nit is likely flatting that pre rather than 3-betting an EP open with it, much less 3b/barrel off.


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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 03:20 PM
(#5)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers langolier

A quick question as my mind has gone blank, how does his stats make him a nit? I always thought it was stats like 8/5, stats like that.

Is it because of the ratio of VPIP/PFR being so close - hardly calling, raising or fold most of the time?


Cheers,

Matt

Last edited by pullin1988; Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 03:54 PM..
 
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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 07:03 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pullin1988 View Post
Cheers langolier

A quick question as my mind has gone blank, how does his stats make him a nit? I always thought it was stats like 8/5, stats like that.

Is it because of the ratio of VPIP/PFR being so close - hardly calling, raising or fold most of the time?


Cheers,

Matt
Hey Matt,

Sorry, I guess nit is a bit harsh for a 16/14, I read the other response and got the nit thing stuck in my head. This would be nitty stats for 6-max, but in full ring it's more just TAG, and not really nit. I still feel the advice doesn't change, has he's more on the nitty side of the TAG spectrum, if that makes any sense.


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