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The Johnny All-in Move

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The Johnny All-in Move - Wed Mar 26, 2014, 02:27 PM
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dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
This is from Harrington on ONLINE CASH GAMES

While 3-betting and 4-betting are less common in micro-stakes games than in higher-stakes games, there is a variation which is actually much more common. It's what I like to call the "Johnny All-in Move," (with thanks to Norman Chad).

Here's the basic idea. A new player sits down at your micro-stakes table. Three hands later, you pick up the in MP and you raise to 3 BBs. Right behind you, Johnny All-in raises - what else? - all in! What do you do?

What you need to know is that Johnny rarely makes this move with an actual premium hand like aces, kings, or queens. Instead, the move usually represents either a medium pair, a low pair, or ace-x, suited or unsuited. Johnny's reasoning goes roughly as follows:

1. He can't call me without aces or kings, so
2. I win the pot almost all the time, and
3. Even if he calls, I can hit a set or hit my ace of my flush, so
4. It's a great move!

Harrington's general guide to counter these plays from a random all-in from an unknown player at the micro-stakes even if the villain is making this move with premium holdings:

Call with pairs 66+ and AT+ suited or unsuited.

This calling range is up to 100bb

What are your thoughts?

Last edited by dirt eh; Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:50 PM..
 
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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 02:43 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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If an opp wants to continually overbet shove, I've got another term for what will happen to them.... getting VALUE-OWNED. They will fold out the worse hands (at least from competent players) and will only get called by better. This type of player may get lucky and get some chips, but will never be a consistent winning player, because they will never get a chip from a player with a clue.

John (JWK24)


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Wed Mar 26, 2014, 07:50 PM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,337
My standard call-off range 100bb vs maniac shove-bots at full ring is JJ+/AJs+/AQ+. For 6-max, I'll add TT and 99. Hands like 66 are too weak to call off imo, even against maniacs. Once you factor in rake, you need to be a fair bit better than flipping against villain's range to break even, so I prefer to wait for something that is more likely to be have the player dominated. I also like minimizing variance to some degree, so I tend to avoid "flips" where possible.
That said, I snap-called off 100bb the other day with A3s vs someone that 3-bet shoved four hands in a row and showed J7o the one time he was called. When I called with A3s, I made the nuts. Villain had 32o for the nut low!


Bracelet Winner
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:02 PM
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FireMedic815's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 2,079
I don't know that I would call quite that wide, certainly not with a lot of players left to act and even closing the action if everybody else folds I would probably have a bit of tighter stack off range for 100bbs something like 88+ AJs+ and AQo+ KQs I mean those are just my thoughts and my range might be a little tight.
 
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Harrington book - Wed Apr 02, 2014, 12:48 AM
(#5)
iHaLo's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Hey, i've seen some of your posts and i think you're a profitable 6 max player. I wanted to improve my game just wondering what kind of books you read, any online training or websites to improve my game and also bankroll management?
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 06:10 AM
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CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by iHaLo View Post
Hey, i've seen some of your posts and i think you're a profitable 6 max player. I wanted to improve my game just wondering what kind of books you read, any online training or websites to improve my game and also bankroll management?
Websites - forumserver.twoplustwo.com
Books - Super System, Easy game (balugawhale)
Play, play, play, and yes - play. Only reading wont make you into better player.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...thread-340027/

Last edited by CrazYJohnnie; Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 06:40 AM..
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 03:09 PM
(#7)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
Websites - forumserver.twoplustwo.com
Books - Super System, Easy game (balugawhale)
Play, play, play, and yes - play. Only reading wont make you into better player.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...thread-340027/
I've heard that super system is out dated but I've never read it. Read Harrington's Books.

Bankroll M: use Felix's recommendations. 40 stacks for cash. The more stacks the better but staying at the same stake can get stale and boring, just like playing COD and owning people for hours on end.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 03:37 PM
(#8)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
Websites - forumserver.twoplustwo.com
Books - Super System, Easy game (balugawhale)
Play, play, play, and yes - play. Only reading wont make you into better player.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...thread-340027/
Great link, thanks for posting it.


 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 04:45 PM
(#9)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
I've heard that super system is out dated but I've never read it. Read Harrington's Books.

Bankroll M: use Felix's recommendations. 40 stacks for cash. The more stacks the better but staying at the same stake can get stale and boring, just like playing COD and owning people for hours on end.
Well, obviously super system does not have anything about 4betting ranges, 3 bet bluffing, etc. but i think it lays solid foundation, at least for me it did. Toyota Prius has GPS, 65 Mustang does not. Now which one would you rather drive?
But yeah, Harrington is good and since i have fully read maybe only Easy Game and Phil Gordon's book which i do not recommend, i cant tell
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 08:42 PM
(#10)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
To be honest, it's been awhile since I've seen a Johnny All-in Move that I could call off!

I'm pleased to present... The Johnny All-in Move for 87bb!

Villain(10):70/20/0.8

 
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Mon Apr 07, 2014, 09:49 PM
(#11)
iHaLo's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Is this for cash games, tourney or both?
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 08:11 PM
(#12)
iHaLo's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
Websites - forumserver.twoplustwo.com
Books - Super System, Easy game (balugawhale)
Play, play, play, and yes - play. Only reading wont make you into better player.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...thread-340027/

I meant this. The guide is it applicable for tourney, cash or both.
 
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Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:38 AM
(#13)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by iHaLo View Post
I meant this. The guide is it applicable for tourney, cash or both.
If you are referring to link i posted, means you did not read it, then why do you ask?
But that link is related to cash games, and mostly 6max cash games and if that is what you are looking to play then link is deffo for you.
As far as them books go, they are also for cash games. But obviously a lot of principles work in MTT's also. I would say that it will be easier for you if you learn cash first, although i started with 1k breakeven/losing SNG's on 888 and looking back i was pretty much clueless, but when i played cash i actually started to learn how to play poker and for the past few months i finally start to feel that i am not only clicking buttons.
 
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Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:58 PM
(#14)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I touched on this play awhile ago now. My default strategy vs. a player who 3bet jams all in is still:

100bb effectively
Call with pairs 66+ and AT+ suited or unsuited.




What are your thoughts on 150bb effectively? Would you call here? What hands would you call with?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

MP ($0.61)
Hero (CO) ($6.54)
Button ($3.39)
SB ($1.86)
BB ($2.95)
UTG ($6.72)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 folds, BB raises to $2.95 (All-In), 1 fold


200+bb effectively? Would you call here? What hands would you call with?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

saw flop | saw showdown

CO ($1.54)
Button ($2)
SB ($4.38)
BB ($2.16)
UTG ($1.32)
Hero (MP) ($5.51)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 folds, SB raises to $4.38 (All-In), 2 folds
 
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Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:06 PM
(#15)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
What do you want to know? That "it depends" on opponents tendencies? Dunno i suppose 200BB+ is a fold for JJ and meh, QQ also, but yeah this heavily still depends, like vs 70/20 fish i am snap calling with TT all day long for 200BB effective.

Would like to hear other opinions.
 

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