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5nl 6 max facing the donkbet and the river bluff

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5nl 6 max facing the donkbet and the river bluff - Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:04 AM
(#1)
mr mendes 20's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 364
I get called by villain in SB, no stats. Board is very dry and he donks. I don't think he would be donking with a set, he would slowplay, I am thinking he might have a 9, any suited 9 or A9, difficult to think why he would donk this, maybe because he's putting me on a AJ-Ak type of hand that missed the flop. He check calls the turn, not giving up his hand yet, and bets what looks to me like a "i have you beat" value bet on the river. Why would he be doing that after I showed so much strength, did he make the sucker end of the straight with 55 or is he just trying to make me fold. I have the nuts so I ship hoping to get called by a two pair or trips, I don't think he would ever fold 55 in this spot but he folds his hand, whatever it was.
What do you think of the overal play, bet sizing, my way of thinking and the villain's range in this spot? Also, what would be a note to take on this villain which could help me against him in the future?


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Last edited by mr mendes 20; Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 08:33 AM..
 
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Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:49 AM
(#2)
FireMedic815's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 2,079
his donk bet looks pretty weak, I have found that some people donk small and raise with a strong hands sometimes but to donk small and call, I would probably put him on 9x 6x and hands that hold two overs looking to see a turn cheaply, I don't think he has AK because I think he might 3 bet with that hand but all his broadway hands might play this way. JT is actually the nuts here, we know he didn't fold that so I would probabaly range him on all his nines like J9+ A6, and all his two over cards that miss. I don't know that he folds his two pair 9x hands so I left those out.

I would have bet bigger on the flop like .50 or so if he donks turn I might just choose to call because some of his hands might have made 2 pair here.

I would tag him as a recreational player and look to play against him in pos. with a wide range and oop with my stronger holdings.

Last edited by FireMedic815; Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 09:01 AM..
 
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Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:00 AM
(#3)
nonex truth's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
Quote:
I don't think he would be donking with a set, he would slowplay.
Why do you think that way?

My thoughts on donking (a set) in this spot: Your opening the pot out of MP. Your range isn't connecting to this flop very well. Your range isn't made to cbet this flop. He expect you to take a free card a whole lot of the time. His sizing on the flop looks like a steal-attempt, but the defending and attacking on later streets suggests it's a disguised monster. I don't see him on a draw or TPTK, not even on a overpair. His check on the turn is for value. The river saved your ...

Betsizing is fine on both sides in respect to the line you two take.

Mark him as tricky regular.
 
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Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:55 AM
(#4)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I think your flop raise is ok. I also don't mind just calling. As played I think your sizing is very small OTF and OTT and then your shove OTR is meh. As played I think I would click back his river bet in order to get a 5, set, or 2 pair type hands to call. I don't think he's calling a shove.

Bet sizing: I would have made it 0.45 OTF and 0.80 OTT.
 
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Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:59 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Hi mr mendes,

I don't see any reasonable way for 55 to get to the river here after we raise the flop and bet the turn on such a dry board. If he's unreasonable enough to see the river with 55, then I think we can't really rule out the also somewhat unreasonable JT, which in a fishy guys mind is probably more reasonable than 55 since he has overs to top pair, and adds a gut shot to the nuts on the turn. I mean those hands are unlikely even readless, I'm just saying.

I see little value in raising this river tbh. It seems unlikely to me we'll get called by worse hands. This is likely a tie or loss when we get called. The suggestion of clicking it on the river by dirt is interesting, but I just don't think it changes much... I would expect 98 or 88 to check/call the river at least some of the time. It seems more common to see someone turning 1 pair into a bluff here to get you off the overpair you've repped (and folding to a raise), or having gotten there with a straight. Which includes 55, but again, that seems hard to believe, and if we feel he's bad enough we should, then I think we also have to include JT, of which there's more combos than 55, making this too thin imo.


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Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:15 PM
(#6)
mr mendes 20's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 364
Thank you Dave! Noted. I can't think of a reason for him to bet/fold the river rather than a bluff I guess we'll never know.
And thanks FireMedic815, dirt eh and nonex truth for taking your time to express your opinions.


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Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:49 AM
(#7)
FireMedic815's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 2,079
[QUOTE=TheLangolier;502690]Hi mr mendes,

I don't see any reasonable way for 55 to get to the river here after we raise the flop and bet the turn on such a dry board. If he's unreasonable enough to see the river with 55, then I think we can't really rule out the also somewhat unreasonable JT, which in a fishy guys mind is probably more reasonable than 55 since he has overs to top pair, and adds a gut shot to the nuts on the turn. I mean those hands are unlikely even readless, I'm just saying.

I think he has a one pair type hand here a ton too, I just think that tiny donk bet could be done with all his broadway cards too with two overs to the board. I don't know if he calls a 2 bet with those hands but I could see him donking out small with those hands.
 
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Sun Mar 30, 2014, 08:31 AM
(#8)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr mendes 20 View Post
I get called by villain in SB, no stats. Board is very dry and he donks. I don't think he would be donking with a set, he would slowplay, I am thinking he might have a 9, any suited 9 or A9, difficult to think why he would donk this, maybe because he's putting me on a AJ-Ak type of hand that missed the flop. He check calls the turn, not giving up his hand yet, and bets what looks to me like a "i have you beat" value bet on the river. Why would he be doing that after I showed so much strength, did he make the sucker end of the straight with 55 or is he just trying to make me fold. I have the nuts so I ship hoping to get called by a two pair or trips, I don't think he would ever fold 55 in this spot but he folds his hand, whatever it was.
What do you think of the overal play, bet sizing, my way of thinking and the villain's range in this spot? Also, what would be a note to take on this villain which could help me against him in the future?
I think you should have bet the turn larger, closer to .75 or .80, then 0.45. The reason is that the same range of hands we beat calls 0.75 that calls 0.45 because that range can take the heat of the flop raise can take the heat of a bigger turn bet (.75 is certainly not crazy here or anything).

So then on the river two points become important. First, we don't have the nuts. JT is the nuts, which has already been mentioned probably, but second it is extremely hard to get paid by second best hands here.

So I would either call the river or min-raise the river to account for those facts. Villain's range is very likely to be TX and bluffs and bluffs never call a raise. Then again who knows we might get something out of min-raising. But villain can never spazz out and has a very hard time making a big call versus a shove.
 
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Sun Mar 30, 2014, 10:55 AM
(#9)
betsizer's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 560
I am just wondering if this guy could not be playing a hand like 87s
He is in the small blind and that is a hand where you would/could defend with
With that flop, he would have an OESD and I would understand a donk bet there and a call of the raise
On the turn he would have one pair still with a draw so he might call
On the river he would make two pair and this might explain the bet fold line ?
Of course I am not that good, just wondering guys is this possible
 

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