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25NL ZOOM, 87s in SB turned boat

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25NL ZOOM, 87s in SB turned boat - Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:59 AM
(#1)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Villain is unknown. 2 hands!

Just wondering if this is the best line here or if you favor a X/SHOVE OTT?

Thanks,
dirt

 
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Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:45 PM
(#2)
FireMedic815's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 2,079
imo you took the best line. I think if you shove ott you give him a chance to fold.
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:29 AM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi dirt eh!

3betting preflop is fine, but I would be more comfortable 3betting against a known player where we expect to have some fold equity or at least predictable postflop play. When he calls, we have to assume he has a fairly decent hand., but it is less likely that we are facing the top of his range since he didn't 4b. But, we can't be too sure of this since he is an unknown. How many tables was he playing is something we can quickly check at any rate. I would assume that most of his calling range will be pocket pairs and broadway cards especially suited.

The situation gets unclear on the flop. You were hoping for a fold preflop, getting a flush or straight draw with our speculative hand is the plan if we see a flop. Here we get top pair on a low paired board that missed our draws. What is your plan with cbetting? Imo, it seems like most of the villain's preflop calling range will call a cbet on this flop. Either they have an overpair, two overcards or even a flush draw often enough. If we cbet, we will most likely have to barrel the turn to win the hand. Yet, there are a ton of scare cards that will make our turn play difficult. Without a read, the best line on the flop is unclear.

As played, you cbet and get raised. This seems to narrow the villain's range to overpairs and flush draws presumably with two over cards and maybe some air if he thinks you are getting out of line. I don't think he will have a 4 or 7 too often. You are a slight underdog against his range. Moreover you are out of position and have a hand this is going to be difficult to play on the t and river. If we knew the villain played draws aggressively and could weight his range toward flush draws, then we could continue with the hand. Without a read, I lean toward folding now in order to avoid investing more in an very unclear spot.

As played, you get a great turn card. Now, we have put the villain on a flush draw or an overpair, both of which we are now beating. Moreover, our aggressive preflop line makes it unlikely that we have a 4 or 7. Our boat is well concealed. I suggest betting the turn for value in order to get all the money in now or on the river. If the villain has an overpair, we want him to stack off now before a scary 3rd spade comes on the river. If the villain is chasing a flush, we still want to bet now while they believe they can improve to the best hand. We can't be sure the villain will do the betting for us. If the river is a brick his missed flush draws will not be putting much more into the pot (unless he pairs one of his overcards).

For the same reasons as I would bet the turn, I prefer check-raising over check-calling. Get the money in now while the villain still has hopes of improving. The risk of a bad river shutting down the action and getting the villain to fold is greater than the risk of him folding to a bet or raise on the turn.

I think we got a lucky break on the turn in this hand. Be careful about overplaying speculative hands oop vs unknowns. Preflop is ok, but our flop line got us into trouble.

Yikes - 85s! I expected a flush, but not those two cards. I hope you put a note on the villain. There is a ton of information to be gained on him here that you can put to good use in the future. That he calls 3b with this range. That he plays flush draws so aggressively with low flushes, etc.

Nice pot, but remember to make a plan and stick to it in spots like this

Roland GTX
 
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Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:15 AM
(#4)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Wow! Roland… thanks for the novel! lol Just joking. I totally agree with you in regards to the turn play. As for the flop play… I guess this is something that I didn't really think about. I know that the villain is calling my 3bet with over pairs and broadways, however I don't think that villains will be raising a bet 100% of the time with an OVERPAIR in this spot IP. This is a spot that I will be double barreling a ton, espicialy due to the dryness of the board and the fact that I can barrel any Q+ card that hits OTT. If no Q+ card hits OTT and villain just calls my cbet then I would be X/folding/X calling the turn depending on sizing. Having said that.. I did hit a 7 OTF so I see the arguments for checking here.

Thank you for the in-depth analysis… I hope to see you some more at the Hydra tables. GL and thanks again! I feel like you are gaining information on me, and I've yet to get any information on YOU!

 
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Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:45 AM
(#5)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Thanks, I'm here to help (and, this was an interesting spot) It is good to hear that you were prepared to get called on the flop. I think the villain will have a lot of AQ, KQs, QJs in his range if he calls the flop though. But I agree with the idea of big cards fitting with your barreling range. Just be careful about taking semi-bluffs too far against unknowns.

PS: I think you should be gaining on me, I just gave you a "a novel" filled with my thought process.
 

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