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Big Bet Lessons? - Tina/Mark

Big Bet Lessons? - Tina/Mark - Thu Dec 05, 2002, 07:11 PM
Deleted user
The purpose of this note is to see how much interest there is in a structured approach to learning big bet Hold'em for beginners. Apryll once said we need to ask Tina and Mark for lessons if we want them badly enough. Let's see by the responses here if there is enough of an audience to warrant PSO resources.

I've read the PSO forum archives and other online forums and learned a little about big bet, but much of the materiel was over my head. :? I feel like I'm making progress, but more haphazardly than I like. I prefer a more structured approach to learning just starting out. I suspect other students do too.

Meanwhile, let me ask the advanced students here to define the key big bet principles. Principles that beginners need to understand to know how to think at the table. Maybe we can define them and then discuss them in detail in separate posts with examples.

I haven't found any source of explicit principles from my reading. I'll just make up my own list to get the ball rolling.:lol: Feel free to criticize. Oh, and I forgot who I stold these ideas from so I apoligize in advance! :roll:

In order of importance: :?:
1. Stack depth-size relative to blinds. 1-20*BB= shallow, 21-100*= moderate,>100*= deep. The big stack intimidates smaller stacks with the all-in threat. Bets and raises are more powerful if opps fear calling or betting. Trumps all other principles. Small stacks are in danger of extinction by every other stack at the table.

2. Hand reading skill-Opps pattern + stack depth + position + table dynamics + recent history + board reading.

3. Table Dynamics-synthesis of observations and thinking at the table to take advantage of momentary opportunities. Try to plan how you will play the next hand in advance.

4. Position-relative to raiser. Better to be last to speak rather than in the middle, potentially between raisers.

5. Play to positive EV. If your edge is big enough to be clearly positive, then you should rarely if ever fold just to avoid the risk.

6. Bubble play- play to survive if in danger of busting near the money, as an exception to the principle of positive edges.

7. Starting hands-any two will do in the right situation. Bluffing situations, or when pot odds warrant.

OK then, what are the real principles? ops:

Thu Dec 05, 2002, 08:15 PM
Deleted user
That's a pretty good list. The only one I think you got wrong was teh bubble play, unlesss you are a very short stack, but that may have been what you meant anyway.

I would definitely be interested in Big-bet tuition. Both beginner and more advanced.

The 2 obvious areas that come to my mind are:

Depth of money and how it effects hand values and play.

Playing in a raised pot.
Thu Dec 05, 2002, 09:07 PM
Deleted user
Being very new to Holdem and this school. I would be very interested in a lesson like this. As I am a true beginer this material would be fantastic for me. I hope this can be done.
lessons - Fri Dec 06, 2002, 10:55 AM
Deleted user
I would be very eager to have some lessons as I am new to this game. only played about 6 months
Sat Dec 07, 2002, 02:34 PM
Deleted user
Originally Posted by Noodles
The only one I think you got wrong was the bubble play, unlesss you are a very short stack, but that may have been what you meant anyway.
Noodles, thanks for the comments. Yes indeed, short stack is what I intended.

I could also have added under item 6 tournament EV as distinct from chip EV to determine our actions. Tournament EV is what you expect to win in $$$ on average by moving one seat up on the payout table vs taking your chances as usual with the best of it in that hand. I borrowed this idea from Fossilman. Thanks for pointing us to his posts.

Let me repeat, this is not my list. I'm only parroting what I've read. I'm hoping that you and the other advanced players will take this up and refine it for us beginners. We will advance much faster if we know a few key principles to guide our thinking at the table.

By the way, I really don't believe in survival play. :lol:


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