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NL10, ZOOM, Maximizing value very strong hand

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NL10, ZOOM, Maximizing value very strong hand - Mon Mar 31, 2014, 03:58 AM
(#1)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135




Preflop:

3bet and got called by 2 Villains are deepstacked. I'm a little over 100 bb.

Flop:
Dream flop, hitting my set. I just check to slow play my hand and let them bet since it was a very dry board.

Turn:
Another good hand or me, giving me the 2nd nuts. I bet very small $1 to show weakness continuing to slow play. Very happy to get raised and called by both villains.

Reraised very small coz I don't want to scare away weak J's. So far both haven't showed too much strength.

River:
Was not a very good card for me, since a 6 hit the quads beating my hand. Still, I bet small $4 prepared to call a shove.


Any suggestions where I could have maximized winning from my hand? Maybe a better play not to drive out the villains as well getting the most value.
 
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Mon Mar 31, 2014, 04:20 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I loathe slowplay, so my comments will be clouded by that:

You raised it up over two players pre-flop, you represent a strong hand, so when you check the flop it looks a bit weird to me. It looks like you had AK and whiffed (In which case I think checking is actually fine) or you have a monster hand and are looking to play deceptively (This is including overpairs to the board).

The turn action is pretty horrific from all involved, IMO, $1 into $4? Just bet a standard size of 50-65% of the pot unless you think they are stations and will call more than that. The min-raising war that follows is stupid. I'm a suspicious kind of player so the minute you start doing this I am thinking you have a hand somewhere along the lines of what you actually have.

River, unless one of them has a 6, you have the nuts here. Just shove. A shove is only about 60-70% of the pot. If they are calling $4 then they are calling a shove.

So, to maximise your winnings, bet standard sizes instead of messing around.

I dunno if these guys were running HUDs, but when you play your hand like this, I am folding overpairs and everything apart from quads.
 
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Mon Mar 31, 2014, 04:54 AM
(#3)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
thanks for the honest feedback bhoy.

In my experience playing zoom at nl10. When I usually do normal bet sized 1/2 or 2/3 pot. Most villains tend to fold on the turn after showing strength on two streets. e.g. OTF and OTT. And I could usually get better value if I check behind when possible and let them bet/bluff.
 
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Mon Mar 31, 2014, 05:11 AM
(#4)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalahwang View Post
thanks for the honest feedback bhoy.

In my experience playing zoom at nl10. When I usually do normal bet sized 1/2 or 2/3 pot. Most villains tend to fold on the turn after showing strength on two streets. e.g. OTF and OTT. And I could usually get better value if I check behind when possible and let them bet/bluff.
I think this is possibly a perception thing.

I've played a small sample against you at 10NL, and given the stats I have, I'd be folding a lot of the time when you show strength. If other people are seeing that same statline (It's maybe just you have had nothing in the hands we have been dealt in to) then they probably think the same and will or should be giving up quite easily.

I feel as if I get a lot of action most of the time, both when ahead and behind, but that is mostly since I started raising a wider range of hands so people think I am just messing about.

Like I say, its possible just a perception thing, but it might also be that people are giving you credit for a hand because (To me at least) you appear to have a tight range.

EDIT: Re-reading my initial post it possibly comes across as a bit strong worded. That wasn't really intentional. Just probably a bit grouchy from a poor nights sleep and it came across in my post. Best of luck at the tables
 
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Mon Mar 31, 2014, 06:12 AM
(#5)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
I'm currently playing without hud. (still saving up from by bankroll for it).

So I can't really have a very good analysis of my game based on stats at the moment. Your opinion is really helpful to possibly make me try to adjust my game a bit and be a lot more polarized.

All opinions are taken well as they are helpful wherever they may come from. :-)
 
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Mon Mar 31, 2014, 08:08 AM
(#6)
FireMedic815's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 2,079
I would have c bet the flop, we were the pre flop raiser and they expect a c bet here almost 100% of the time on a dry board. then a small maybe half pot bet ott to make it hard for them to fold to your river shove is fine imo. I am never giving them a 6 here I think we are miles ahead.

As played you could have shoved river, I don't think they are folding too often here.
 
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Mon Mar 31, 2014, 11:55 AM
(#7)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi guys!

Good discussion here! There are a few things I’d like to point out, but first I think there are two ways to proceed here and the line we take has to be decided on how we play the flop. Either way, I think the theme behind this is consistency which we did not preserve by min bet – raising turn 
Anyway here’s my thought process:
Preflop, I think 3betting is fine but it might be one of those spots that we would have to fold to a 4bet from UTG. Note his position and his 3.5x PFR which makes me think he is playing a tight range. Out of the two players, I think V5 has the weakest range (well obviously V4 has given they folded, but we don’t care about that anymore since they are out of the hand) because they did not 3bet themselves and elected to just flat call after V1 cold calls our 3bet. V1, in my eyes, has a stronger range than V5: they have seen an UTG open, a MP call, and a CO 3bet. Our range looks quite strong here: JJ+, AK yet V1 elects to call so I’m thinking AK, QQ, AQs/TT/99 (sometimes) and V5 can have AQ, and all sort of PPs, maybe even include some SCs.
We are actually crushing the board here; we have top set on a dry flop. Our goal is to get 3+ streets of value but it’s difficult to realize that when there is not much action going on on this particular flop so I think checking here has its merits to allow our opponents to catch up but also by checking we lose 1 street of value and would be hard for us to increase the size of the pot on later streets when we are sitting in between the two players. Eventually I think we would lose one of the players. What we can do is bet small OTF to allow our opponents to call with worse PPs or float us with their overs.
When we check the flop, we are hoping for V1 to bet with their QQ but if we check-raise this will kind of give our hand strength away. Because our check is an indication of a weak hand, check/raising will be the opposite action and that’s why I don’t like our turn line. Now that there are two spades on board I think a hand like AsQs will always call our turn bet so I would actually bet the turn bigger. The point is their ranges are kind of static, if they will call a 1$ bet with TT then they would call a 2.82$ as equally. As played, when we get raised OTT, I would just call and plan to check raise the river. We can break our consistency by the river when we would have gained two extra bets out of our villain and allowed them to bluff or bet with worse.
 
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Mon Mar 31, 2014, 12:08 PM
(#8)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
lots of good stuff in your analysis Geo. Thanks and noted them down. :-)
 

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