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10NL 6max - 98s btn should I be calling pre then raising virtual turn nuts

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10NL 6max - 98s btn should I be calling pre then raising virtual turn nuts - Thu Apr 03, 2014, 11:29 PM
(#1)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Another no read zoomy were I can ask myself some questions in review of this hand. Please jump in.

Utg opens standard 3x and is double stacked - so solid reg maybe?

We have 98s btn and call. Are we ok with the call?

Villain c-bets a nice size on 57Jr flop. We have no suit but double rap and just the one over on the board. Are we are ok with a call now?

We hit a 6 turn for our low straight. Can't see higher beating us on the river. But now this is a 2 flush board the villain c-bets turn. Maybe as a semi-bluff with run out equity...

Did I make mistake raising it up here? Got a fold and then thinking - hummm! Did I make 1, 2 or 3 mistakes.

 
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Thu Apr 03, 2014, 11:42 PM
(#2)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Thought you played it great Forrest!! If the HA's find any spots for improvement, guess we'll both have the chance to learn something new

 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 12:10 AM
(#3)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Forrest,

I would actually raise his cbet here to $1.00. We have a double belly buster so he have 8 clean outs. This way if we hit it will look a lot less obvious and our hand will be extremely hidden when we hit.

As played is also fine. I don't like cold calling OTT. I would have raised just as you did.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 12:27 AM
(#4)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Thanks guys and girls


Had I feeling I threw some dynamite in the water with my turn raise size. Never done fishing with a hook and a worm.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 02:50 AM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
Forrest,

I would actually raise his cbet here to $1.00. We have a double belly buster so he have 8 clean outs. This way if we hit it will look a lot less obvious and our hand will be extremely hidden when we hit.

As played is also fine. I don't like cold calling OTT. I would have raised just as you did.
So what do you do if you get 3bet on the flop?
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 03:12 AM
(#6)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
So what do you do if you get 3bet on the flop?
I would call if I was getting the right odds...
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 03:17 AM
(#7)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
mike2198,

I didn't raise the flop bet as, dirt eh suggested, then facing a 3bet just sucks. No answer to that one.

Calling pre and flop looks ok - no mistake pre. Now raising flop bet?

Making a joke - is the turn raise too big? Yes I think so.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 03:25 AM
(#8)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestFive View Post
mike2198,

I didn't raise the flop bet as, dirt eh suggested, then facing a 3bet just sucks. No answer to that one.

Calling pre and flop looks ok - no mistake pre. Now raising flop bet?

Making a joke - is the turn raise too big? Yes I think so.
Forrest,
I think Mike is asking ME what I would do after I raise the flop bet. It doesn't matter. I would call if the odds were right and fold if they're not... pretty simple.

Calling preflop is good! OTT, you could go for $2.50 but tbh you're not going to get much action here OTT... the board just got really scary for the villain and this villain is OOP!

Unless the villain has an overpair, set or AK of hearts, they are folding to your turn raise no matter what size you make it.

The hand was well played.

Thanks!
dirt
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 05:23 AM
(#9)
herbalerv's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 217
SilverStar
Going with your read that villain is a strong regular I actually like a call on the turn. In his eyes you can only raise there with sets and straights, maybe two pair and I think he is mucking aces there. If you call turn and your hand is no longer the nuts on the river which is fairly unlikely you can always just call another bet, I just think calling the turn keeps are range much wider than raising. Your raise pretty much committed you and villain knows this.

Also disagree with the suggestions your raise size was too much, any smaller raise looks just as strong to be honest and would get the same outcome so your size has more value.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 05:59 AM
(#10)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Pre and flop are fine. The raise OTT is a little big. maybe $2.25 is more likely to be called.

I do feel you need to raise. Many rivercards can hurt your hand, any heart, any 8, any 9, any pair, so you cannot give people a free card just because you have the nuts OTT.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 08:36 AM
(#11)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
You shouldn't have a raising range on this flop. I like how you played it.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 12:17 PM
(#12)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I like what birdayy said. But I also think raising the flop is not a terrible play either depending on our villain. I might be more inclined to call with a backdoor flush because we would have more equity to call a turn bet. I think both lines are justified, the one we choose depends on villain tendencies imo. The advantages of raising the flop is: we fold better hands like AK, AQ, KQ, etc. and we are ensured to see a river card if they call and we check back turns when we miss. The disadvantage is that we might reopen the action.

Last edited by geoVARTA; Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 12:20 PM..
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 01:46 PM
(#13)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
You shouldn't have a raising range on this flop. I like how you played it.
This is WHY I would like to raise OTF... doesn't make sense to the villain. When we hit our hand becomes extremely disguised... especially if the villain has an overpair or set.

Raising the flop will either say I have Jx, 2 pair, or a set... hard to see that we have a double belly buster here.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 02:16 PM
(#14)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
The villain here does look reggy, so that's unfortunate ...

Also anybody else find sometimes the board texture/runout can make a big difference in how much a straight might be able to make from TPTK? Like when the straight is more disguised, because the person had a combo draw, and the straight came in rather than the flush, etc?


EG.

Hero:
Villain:

Board:      


Think I've paid off a couple of river re-raises with AK in spots like this Although the opposite's been true too
 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 06:52 AM
(#15)
Oly0909's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
BronzeStar
But this flop is totaly different, here you want to get it in on flop as you have ~55% equity even against AA, and hero has ~35% against overpair.
 

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