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10 NL Zoom 6 max ,Call or Fold??

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10 NL Zoom 6 max ,Call or Fold?? - Fri Apr 04, 2014, 03:26 PM
(#1)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 21.82, PFR: 19.55, AF: 5 , Hands: 227)
Hero (SB): $10.00
BB: $11.96
UTG: $17.85
MP: $10.35
CO: $11.30

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has

UTG raises to $0.20, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.20, Hero raises to $1.10, fold, UTG calls $0.90, BTN calls $0.90

Flop: ($3.40, 3 players)
Hero bets $2.45, fold, BTN raises to $8.90 and is all-in,
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 04:31 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Insta-call.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 04:53 PM
(#3)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Is the small divide between the VPIP and the PFR maybe cause for concern? Since the most common hands to flat-call with are pocket pairs to set-mine (like the lack of divide might narrow his range to just pocket pairs, and not suited connectors?)

Guess that might still leave a hand like 55 that he might choose to play this way if he's especially aggro and/or felt his shove would be met with a fold.

Usually I'd take a look at the villain's HUD stats to see where all the AF is coming from - like people with high steal % and high cbet % will naturally tend to have a higher AF? Then I'd look at the villain's flop re-raise and check-raise % to see if he might tend to be aggro with draws. And then the wtsd and w$sd would indicate how lightly he's willing to stack off - like if he'd do it with 55 and 77, or just 33, 44, 66 (expecting a call, based on the strength op's shown so far).

The more info the better, in spots like this I think ...
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 05:21 PM
(#4)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Is the small divide between the VPIP and the PFR maybe cause for concern?

Incidentally, I got that tip from reading HA


This section's so helpful, but sometimes it can be hard to show hands where we may not have played so great ... guess maybe next time I choose a hand to post, I should put more care into finding one where I didn't play like a total clown from beginning to end (and only played like a partial clown, part of the way?


I seem to be rambling again ... better get back to the grind ...
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 05:25 PM
(#5)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
he shoved instantly.i thought that he thought i might have say AK or AQ so i came to the conclusion that he probably had an over pair and maybe a set of 66's.

had a look at his other stats just now. cbet 63% (5/8) , check raise 100% (1/1) , raise cbet 40% (2/5) .Flop AF of 7
AFq of flop : 58% turn : 75% river: 67%

wtsd 29% and w$sd 100%
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 05:45 PM
(#6)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Wow, not sure what to make of those stats - don't think I've ever seen check-raise and re-raise stats so high! :o

Then again his w$sd is 100%, so that's not good :/


Wow, not sure what id do in your spot KR ... am sure whatever you chose was just fine given the info - hopefully the hand went your way
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 05:59 PM
(#7)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingreigns View Post
he shoved instantly.i thought that he thought i might have say AK or AQ so i came to the conclusion that he probably had an over pair and maybe a set of 66's.

had a look at his other stats just now. cbet 63% (5/8) , check raise 100% (1/1) , raise cbet 40% (2/5) .Flop AF of 7
AFq of flop : 58% turn : 75% river: 67%

wtsd 29% and w$sd 100%
Sample size is too small, those stats are meaningless. I have my stats hidden until there has been a minimum of 10 opportunities.

I don't even start to see PostF stats until 350+ hands on average.
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 06:16 PM
(#8)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
it is a tiny sample just thought i'd post them anyways.dirt eh would you call or fold the hand?i can tell you what i did if you want,i'm new to the whole posting hand's thing
 
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Fri Apr 04, 2014, 06:38 PM
(#9)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingreigns View Post
it is a tiny sample just thought i'd post them anyways.dirt eh would you call or fold the hand?i can tell you what i did if you want,i'm new to the whole posting hand's thing
It depends what you put this villain on. You need 30% equity...
If we give the villain 33-66 which is sort of unrealistic we have 30% equity vs. those four pocket pairs. So by just giving them pretty much the nuts, it's a call.

If you're putting them on only a set then it's a fold... lol but you can't just put the villain on a single hand. you have to put them on a range of hands...

CALL.
 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 05:51 AM
(#10)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Tough one, as BTN seems to be a regular who overflats pre and can therefore produce all sets in this spot as well as a lot of stronger draws. In a multiway squeezed pot I feel villains will be a little more honest with their aggressive action so here in a best case scenario you'll probably be up against a good draw with more than decent equity against your hand.

With your flop betsizing I think we are getting a good enough price to bet/call and hope for our ~35% on average equity here.


Live Trainer



 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 08:51 AM
(#11)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Oh that's a great point about this villain looking like a reg, and it being multi-way


Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
It depends what you put this villain on. You need 30% equity...
If we give the villain 33-66 which is sort of unrealistic we have 30% equity vs. those four pocket pairs.

Not sure what other hands the villain could have except maybe like 9d 8d? Possibly 77, Ad Kd? Like if he put KR on QQ+?

And then if expected value of a call over the long-term is the exact same as a fold, -$3 ... like, you've only put $3 in so far - you'd have to put an extra $6.50 in, just so you can lose 70% of the time (and win only 30% of the time, when (1) you're flipping with the villain (2) and you win the flip (3) or hit a 2-outer)

On the other hand, guess there's 18 combos total of 33,44,66, and 12 combos of 55 ... but maybe it's more likely the villain's doing this with 55.


Seems like there's little to be gained by either calling or folding, so ... guess if you think a certain range is more likely for the villain to have, maybe that'd be reason to go one way over the other?

Awkward spot :/
 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 01:12 PM
(#12)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I really don't see how this is awkward.

Call, if he does this with better than what we have, make a note that he is an idiot.

Its 10NL, it doesnt have to make sense.

EDIT: And yes, I have examples.

Last edited by bhoylegend; Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 01:16 PM..
 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 01:24 PM
(#13)
kingreigns's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 49
thanks for the replies, bhoylegend it's not an awkward spot but i was interested to see what people say.i did call and i did have to take a note on him after lol
 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 01:45 PM
(#14)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingreigns View Post
thanks for the replies, bhoylegend it's not an awkward spot but i was interested to see what people say.i did call and i did have to take a note on him after lol
Hence the reason you posted it

Thing is, they do it with:



 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 01:48 PM
(#15)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Sucks to see KK cracked - you'll get him next time KR
 
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Sat Apr 05, 2014, 01:55 PM
(#16)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Is the small divide between the VPIP and the PFR maybe cause for concern?
Incidentally, I got that tip from reading HA
This is the first time I've had the chance to use this tip - genius!

And I don't use that term lightly ... lol
 
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Sun Apr 06, 2014, 08:31 AM
(#17)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,308
As Sam pointed out, villain has a pair just about always... which makes this a snap call.
You lose to 9 combos of sets, and are beating 30 combos of overpairs (JJ-77). You also beat 6 combos of 55 (pair+OESD).
Folding here would be a huge mistake imo, just based on combotronics as you're (way) ahead about 80% of the time. QQ is easy call too. JJ would be close and TT would probably be a sigh-fold.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Apr 06, 2014, 08:34 AM
(#18)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
As Sam pointed out, villain has a pair just about always...
I did say that, but there was more too it - why would you think that Arty?

Also, something that seems to have gotten lost in the fray is the fact that KR 3-bet into 2 people, then c-bet into 2 people - while oop. And it was a BIG cbet too. People at 10nl aren't generally doing that with 66.

Also, KR has 200+ hands on this villain - which means this villain has 200+ hands on KR ... he'd know KR's 3bet and cbet rates, as do I over a similar sample size ...

Last edited by TrustySam; Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:37 AM..
 

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