Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Tournament Section (MTTs & STTs) /

1$ SNG, AA on 4 to flush board

Old
Default
1$ SNG, AA on 4 to flush board - Fri Apr 04, 2014, 05:03 PM
(#1)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
6max SNG. Villain is 34/10 over 74 hands, playing loose but passive. This spot has additional importance because of the payout structure - 3rd place wins 1.02$ which is kinda weird, but on the other hand if you just fold you can often make it ITM and then you are one double-up away from better profit.
Question - is there anytime villain is not doing this with a spade? I think checking turn is better than betting.

$25/$50 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 04 04 2014 22:49:59
Tournament #57069281 $0.85 + $0.15 - Table #1 (Real Money)
Blinds 25/50
Seat 6 is the button

Seat 1: Arjen_aces ( $1,587 )
Seat 2: Monkeyboy000 ( $1,088 )
Seat 6: i8poker123 ( $4,880 )
Seat 7: CrazyJohnnie ( $1,445 )
CrazyJohnnie posts small blind [$25]
Arjen_aces posts big blind [$50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to CrazyJohnnie
Monkeyboy000 folds
i8poker123 calls [$50]
CrazyJohnnie raises [$175]

Arjen_aces folds
i8poker123 calls [$150]
** Dealing flop ** [ , , ]
CrazyJohnnie bets [$225] Half pot
i8poker123 calls [$225]
** Dealing turn ** [ ]
CrazyJohnnie checks
i8poker123 checks
** Dealing river ** [ ]
CrazyJohnnie checks
i8poker123 bets [$450] This is half pot
CrazyJohnnie folds
** Summary **
i8poker123 did not show his hand
i8poker123 collected [ $900 ]

Last edited by CrazYJohnnie; Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 05:19 PM..
 
Old
Default
Fri Apr 04, 2014, 08:43 PM
(#2)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
6max SNG. Villain is 34/10 over 74 hands, playing loose but passive. This spot has additional importance because of the payout structure - 3rd place wins 1.02$ which is kinda weird, but on the other hand if you just fold you can often make it ITM and then you are one double-up away from better profit.
Question - is there anytime villain is not doing this with a spade? I think checking turn is better than betting.

$25/$50 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 04 04 2014 22:49:59
Tournament #57069281 $0.85 + $0.15 - Table #1 (Real Money)
Blinds 25/50
Seat 6 is the button

Seat 1: Arjen_aces ( $1,587 )
Seat 2: Monkeyboy000 ( $1,088 )
Seat 6: i8poker123 ( $4,880 )
Seat 7: CrazyJohnnie ( $1,445 )
CrazyJohnnie posts small blind [$25]
Arjen_aces posts big blind [$50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to CrazyJohnnie
Monkeyboy000 folds
i8poker123 calls [$50]
CrazyJohnnie raises [$175]

Arjen_aces folds
i8poker123 calls [$150]
** Dealing flop ** [ , , ]
CrazyJohnnie bets [$225] Half pot
i8poker123 calls [$225]
** Dealing turn ** [ ]
CrazyJohnnie checks
i8poker123 checks
** Dealing river ** [ ]
CrazyJohnnie checks
i8poker123 bets [$450] This is half pot
CrazyJohnnie folds
** Summary **
i8poker123 did not show his hand
i8poker123 collected [ $900 ]
It is a difficult spot because you are out of position - he could have air or an + rag draw or he could have something like and be keen enough to play the top pair since he has outs to the nut flush.

Problem is that because you didn't challenge him at any point along the way aside from the flop which on a wet board like this, a call could be anything.

This to me plays just like AA limp trap that doesn't fire and you enter the pot with 4 other players. You have no confidence in your over-pair and there is more than a few reasons why a fold was good there
1) You were not leading the betting, since you shutdown on the turn, your opponent could have a hand or be playing your weakness and essentially giving them the ability to bluff, thus improving the amount of hands they could have from just their hole cards + the perceieved cards you are in fear of
2) You didn't have position
3) The board was very wet and with the 4-flush on the turn, your had another tick in the "way-behind" column
4) Your opponent bets at you, regardless of if they have it or not, you are only calling here if you have the chips to spare and are only raising if you have 100% faith in your bluff read

Flushes are one of those things that you either believe or you don't and when it comes Club-Club-Club on the flop and your opponent shoves, you sense bad value and think the over-bet is a steal, you call and see clubs.

Bad players have no understanding of getting value from the nuts.
They either shove (forcing a fold and no additional chips) or they over-check it, trapping to the river.

I have seen a 3-flush come on the flop and I have trips, my opponent allows me to pickup 2 free cards and then jams me on the river. Not only did he loose value and is most likely playing for the same pot that he was 2 streets ago, if I got lucky and filled in one of my Full House / Quads outs (10 total by the turn>river) then it is me that has trapped him.

I like the way you played it and Aces or not, all you had was an overpair and you may as well have Jacks for all the good it would do you unless your opponent had Kings/Queens.

Releasing Aces is harder than releasing Kings/Queens. When you have Pocket Kings and an Ace shows, it is a good laydown if you can avoid a Rag Ace hand beating you. However for Aces, there is no starting hand that is better so you are beaten by the board instead and this to me reads just as if you had QQ and the flop comes A-K-X - there are 2 reasons there why your opponent is betting strong and can beat you.

On another note, if he was on a bluff, only a raise would have pushed him off it.
For the sake of 9BB win vs a KO or putting you down to half your stack, it wasnt worth the risk.

Had you been stronger on your stack, it could have been worth a call but even then, you were still behind so why pay for the bad news.
 
Old
Default
Sat Apr 05, 2014, 04:27 AM
(#3)
donkkilla76's Avatar
Since: Mar 2014
Posts: 107
flush board are always hard as you never really know what your opponent is playing i had one the other day we both had top pair but i was winning on kicker he was betting all the way i was calling river made for 3 diamonds on the board he monstered it i called not even considering he had it, but just my luck he did.I had been winning all the way to the river. What you shouldve really done was put a small bet in on the river to make them consider whether you had it or not if they have the ace then they will probably monster it , if not even if you lose a few more chips at least you can get a better idea on what they are playing
 
Old
Default
Sat Apr 05, 2014, 08:18 AM
(#4)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
That would be interesting line. I think tho that villain being passive when he/she bets 1/2 pot OTR on this board it just looks like value bet so much to me.
 
Old
Default
Sat Apr 05, 2014, 08:54 AM
(#5)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
That would be interesting line. I think tho that villain being passive when he/she bets 1/2 pot OTR on this board it just looks like value bet so much to me.
regardless, it was a good fold

With AA, you want to be dominating, you want your opponent to be betting into a dry board with their "K" pair, just as if you had QQ and your opponent was betting the "J" top pair.. the second you felt you were behind, like if the board paired or the 4-flush came in, it was a good laydown.

At the preflop,, you are 85% ahead to any random hand - quite dominating
At the flop, you are 68% ahead to any random hand, not that dominating for AA really
At the turn, you odds dropped to 40% to win, your opponent now has 45% and the remainder for the tie
At the river, your odds improved to 51%, now that good really

So if your instincts on hiting the flop were spot on, you felt behind and in the terms of things, your lead dropped significantly.
At the turn it not only got worse but you dropped below a 50% chance of winning, so the odds were in your opponents favor now
The river improved but barely and still around the 50% mark

good laydown, good job
 
Old
Default
Sat Apr 05, 2014, 07:05 PM
(#6)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
Hi CrazZJohnnie

Your preflop raise sizing is fine as is your c-bet sizing. I would however make it 150 instead of 175 preflop because we want action with our hand.
I too opt to check back on the turn because betting with the intention of folding to a shove would leave us with a tiny stack ( assuming we bet 40 - 50% of the pot )

Folding to the river bet is good/standard. If you do make the hero call and lose you will be left with 600 ish chips where as if you fold you will be left with over 1000 chips and still have a good shot at taking down the sng.

Also it's very unlikely that villain will call your c-bet without a spade in his hand I have seen stranger things happen but for the most part he has at least Qs+. Perhaps Q9/Q10 with a spade.

Cheers, Chris.

Last edited by ChewMe1; Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 07:09 PM..
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com