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NL10 6max basic question. Overpair facing C-bet. When to raise

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NL10 6max basic question. Overpair facing C-bet. When to raise - Mon Apr 07, 2014, 08:07 AM
(#1)
A Beatmaker's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 74

Its the same situition just changed difrent hole cards. Same flop same villain.


A have more likeli general question.
Vilain unknown more likely reg. Wanted to ask what to do in this spot with hands like 77-JJ . Most of time I just call with overpairs but now thinking it is a leak and that rasing with some overpairs (in this case TT,JJ and caling with 77-99) wuold be more profitable.
 
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Mon Apr 07, 2014, 08:14 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Depends on his range really. Raising over pairs just because they are overpairs can be hazardous, especially OOP.

Often calling down is decent. If you raise, they generally continue with just their stronger range.
 
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Mon Apr 07, 2014, 01:07 PM
(#3)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I don't like raising OPs. When we raise, we're folding out everything that we beat and they're only continuing with hands that usually beat us. We're also taking away the chance of them double barreling or even triple barreling with air.

In the examples I would rather raise the 7s than the Js due to the fact that the 7s connect to this flop better but I still like just calling down IP.

If we raise TT or JJ we're going to get ourselves into big trouble. At least with 7s we should have 4 x 4s and 2 x 7s as outs. With TT or JJ we could be dead to only 2 outs instead of 6 outs.
 
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Mon Apr 07, 2014, 02:39 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi,

I would be more inclined to raise the first hand than the 2nd, if I had to pick one, although calling each is fine and probably best.

The first is ahead of more of villain's range than the 2nd hand is (88-TT, AT-A8 both are ahead of but JJ more so), and the first hand doesn't benefit as much from seeing additional cards, while the 77 does having a gut shot and back door 8/9 high straight draws.


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Mon Apr 07, 2014, 03:19 PM
(#5)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Hi,

I would be more inclined to raise the first hand than the 2nd, if I had to pick one, although calling each is fine and probably best.

The first is ahead of more of villain's range than the 2nd hand is (88-TT, AT-A8 both are ahead of but JJ more so), and the first hand doesn't benefit as much from seeing additional cards, while the 77 does having a gut shot and back door 8/9 high straight draws.
I semi agree here. I think the problem with raising JJ here is that if the villain 3 bets us, what do we do with JJ? yuck. The villain could 3bet us with an overpair higher than jacks, nutflush draw, straight draw, underpair to JJ "if they are a maniac", and sets. So I think we should only be raising JJ here OTF if we plan to get it in.

As for the pocket 77s. If we get 3bet we can called if the odds are correct and reevaluate OTT.

Both spots pretty much suck... so quote TheLangolier "calling each is fine and probably best!"

I approve this message.
 
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Mon Apr 07, 2014, 03:45 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
Call in both spots, since you're in position with medium strength hands that could be way ahead or way behind. If you raise, it's because you want to end the hand right there (which often misses value), but you can't stand a 3-bet, so it would be akin to "raising for info", which is largely pointless.
By calling, you get further info on the turn for the same price of calling the flop, allowing you to make pretty easy folds if the board turns ugly and you get barreled into, or you can bet when villain checks, feeling confident. This way, you lose the minimum when behind, and a chance to win uncontested when villain gives up. (You also have a small chance to turn a monster that can play for stacks).


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