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NL5 Zoom 6m, line check w/kk vs unknown. 160bb deep.

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NL5 Zoom 6m, line check w/kk vs unknown. 160bb deep. - Thu Apr 10, 2014, 08:35 AM
(#1)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
I have only 8 hands on villain, he's two tabling.

Opinions on the line I took here? Am I being too nitty in not shoving the river. He has more combos of jj/qq than aa, and stack sizes are the reason behind my line. Also it's nice to be ip in a spot like this w/a premium.

 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 11:49 AM
(#2)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Paddy! Jam OTR for value here! If you lose to AA you would've lost anyways if you went AI preflop. I think this villain could have 77-AA and even be overplaying AK just like so many villains do at these stakes! Villains play AK harder than AA at the micros!

JAMMY JAM.
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 11:52 AM
(#3)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
dirt how do you like the line overall? aside from not shoving the river obv.

I think my problem atm is i'm playing too many zoom tables, missing out on value in a lot of spots when i look through my session reviews.

I'm comfortable playing 4 tables but I'm not sure if it would be better to 2 table and make the best decisions i can on each street.
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 11:58 AM
(#4)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Line is perfect imo. I used to play 4 tables. I was making so many mistakes it was gross. I was also missing obvious bluffs and value spots just like this. JUST A ROBOT when playing 4.

I play 2 tables now. It was hard to go from 4 down to 2 because it's much slower but my winrate has skyrocketed. I also went from playing a 19-16 game when 4 tabling to a 26-21 game when 2 tabling.
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 12:02 PM
(#5)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
ty for the input. ill try and stick to 2 for the week and see how it effects my winrate/decision making.

Do you have much experience at these stakes in zoom? Quick q....an unknown villain raises button and i 3bet jj from sb, he insta shoves for 100bb. What would your calling range be?
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 12:08 PM
(#6)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Would be villain dependent. My experience would be that this is AK or QQ unless the villain is aggro preflop. Sometimes I call with JJ but ya... villain dependent.

My calling range vs. unknown would be QQ+ and maybe AKs. I try not to CAI with AK... I like shoving AK vs. calling with it.
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 12:11 PM
(#7)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
yeah same, thanks bud
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:56 PM
(#8)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
4bet/call - get it in preflop, no?
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:13 PM
(#9)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
4bet/call - get it in preflop, no?
That's an option. Cold calling is also an option. Once again this would be villain dependent. If we have a trigger happy villain who cbets, tbets, and rbets at a high frequency then I like to just call. I Also like to just call vs. unknowns and RECs so that they over play their hands such as 77+ and AK.

When we just call we play against a wider range. If we 4-bet we only play against QQ+ and AK which is still +EV but we miss value from all the worse hands that the villain could be playing.

This all depends on how comfortable you are at playing PostF with a big pair. If you're bad at playing big pairs PostF, then yes just try to GII preflop.

Thanks!
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:54 PM
(#10)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
I'd have shipped it pre Johnny in a lot of spots yes. Against an unknown ip when we're a bit deeper however I'm inclined to play post flop.

I feel like the more spots you get into at ms the better, will help down the road when we're all crushing the higher stakes
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 07:21 PM
(#11)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Yeah dirt i know we keep vill range wider by just flatting was just trying to argue about simple play here. ALTHOUGH i agree that if we 4bet and vill instajams then we kinda slowly press call btn saying "plz dont have Aces plz dont have Aces"
Yeah paddy these spots help us a lot, actually 6max helps a lot when you cant just sit 12/10 waiting for AA to get it in or 44 to setmine lol.
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 07:28 PM
(#12)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
yeah Johnnie, though I don't know much about fr and am sure I wouldn't have the patience for it!

6max and zoom in particular puts you into spots a lot quicker than regular tables. I've taken this line a few times because of some stuff I learned from Felix' videos, just wish I'd played the most important street correctly
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 11:12 PM
(#13)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
With no reads and considering how underrepped your hand is I would probably just 3-bet shove river. A call isn't terrible or anything though. At the micros some players like to slowplay their monsters to death then bomb the river with an overbet so it is always a little bit disconcerting to see that bet pattern. There is so little that beats you though I think it would be more profitable to shove and try and get value from smaller full houses that feel committed after betting so big.

Checking flop back is fine, your hand is not vulnerable at all. Only card you hate to see is an A.

Preflop, I would suggest 4-betting KK. Calling with AA sometimes is more reasonable, but against an unknown player you have no history against it is not really necessary. Just raise for value.

I do wonder why you only raised to $.12 preflop though? What is your reasoning behind that? I've noticed that is a more common bet sizing in high stakes, but there are a lot of reasons why that is the case and none of those reasons apply to 5NL.
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 04:10 AM
(#14)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
I would just 4-bet preflop vs an unknown, playing tricky without knowning an opponent's ranges or tendencies well can sometimes backfire.

As played I would shove river for the tiny rest. Your hand is underrepresented so that villain could valuebet JJ/QQ as well as AA and we should be a favorite against his calling range in that case.


Live Trainer



 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 08:44 AM
(#15)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
Rocker I 3x from utg and mp, 2.5x from everywhere behind.

Makes my steals less expensive for me, and I do believe that it's effective at 5nl zoom. There are quite a few aggro players in this pool, so i'm saving a few cents in the spots where they attack my steals and I don't play back.

Ty again for all the feedback guys. Lot's to think about.
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 10:21 AM
(#16)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Gar View Post
Rocker I 3x from utg and mp, 2.5x from everywhere behind.

Makes my steals less expensive for me, and I do believe that it's effective at 5nl zoom. There are quite a few aggro players in this pool, so i'm saving a few cents in the spots where they attack my steals and I don't play back.

Ty again for all the feedback guys. Lot's to think about.
Ok. Is your opening range in late position also wide(weak)? You can bet smaller then, but you also have to defend against 3-bets more often as well. You could consider playing a tighter range instead of betting smaller. It would accomplish the same thing, plus make it easier to play because opponents will often react more straightforward towards a strong range. There are different playing styles and they all can work so I don't want to imply that doing this would be better/best. Pre-flop is just so important. It is good to think about what you are trying to accomplish.
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 10:37 AM
(#17)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
Yes my opening range is very wide on the co and button. I'll open any two depending on the nittiness of the blinds on the button. I defend a decent amount ip, less inclined to flat oop. My fold to 3bet is somewhere around 60%.

I have a decent sample of hands on most of the regs at these stakes (1k plus), and several notes so I can form a defending range based on their tendencies.

I use 2.5x as I tried with the min open in late position initially and felt like it was getting called too often from the b.b/ attacked too often by aggresive players. 2.5x seems to work best for what I'm trying to accomplish.
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 04:58 PM
(#18)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Cool man that all makes a lot of sense to me.
 

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