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All-in preflop

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All-in preflop - Thu Apr 10, 2014, 04:35 PM
(#1)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I was having a review of some of my general play and I was looking at all my hands when I got in preflop. I also filtered for pots that were over 150BB so that I filtered out all the short-stackers and #fischigespieler which I didn't want to mess up my analysis.

Here are all the hands I've been all-in with preflop. This has a tiny bit of 2NL/5NL but is mainly 10NL, 16NL and 25NL:



In total, I've been all in preflop 152 times in 277k hands for a winrate of +1175 BB/100.

I wanted to interpret these statistics, but I had no comparison, so I'd like to start a discussion and maybe have some of you guys post your stats, filtered for getting all in pre-flop and pot size of bigger than 150BB.

My initial thoughts on my statistics:
  • I have a big loss rate with QQ.
  • Getting all in preflop only 152 times in 277k hands seems pretty nitty. Is this a normal number or is it too tight?
  • My winrate for all-in pots is high, but is that affecting other areas of my game negatively? Am I not doing enough light raising preflop?

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts and see other people's stats!
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 06:53 PM
(#2)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Andy,

Please filter these same stats into a graph and let me know your all in ev.

I just filtered my stats but it won't let me post large photos on the forum.

198k hands
AI preflop: 201
All in EV in BB: 848.96
Net Won in BB: -408.90

I run pretty bad I would say...

These stats are YEAR TO DATE: 2NL Zoom to 25NL Zoom
 
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Thu Apr 10, 2014, 11:12 PM
(#3)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
10NL, 16NL and 25NL
Hey spand, DE


Were those 10nl and 25nl figures mostly from zoom? Went to look at my numbers, so far this year out of 80k hands, I've only managed to get called AIPF by stacks 100bb+ three times! (150bbs is the most I ever play)

EDITED

Managed to have a bunch of shorter stacks willing to go all-in though, but it's still a pretty small sample.

EDITED

I only got it in bad once - and have actually won all the hands listed, including the one where I got it in bad Although one AA and one KK were ties - they're the AA and KK hand shown in the first table. Think I've folded KK pre-flop something like three times this year though ...


What's your guys' overall win-rate for KK? Am wondering if mine's slightly low?

EDITED


Disclaimer: My win-rate's not so great, so these numbers are probably also not so great - would be interesting to see figures from a better player - calling Sandtrap?

Last edited by TrustySam; Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 06:10 PM..
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 05:57 AM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
I don't read too much into the results of called all ins with AK. Remember that part of the value of jamming AK is the fold equity you leverage. Calling shoves with AKo too often might be a leak, but 4-bet jamming should be profitable, thanks to all the dead money you pick up when villains fold.

As for the losses with QQ, learn to flip better.



I would have my shared my own stats, but I just joined another network and started a new database. From memory, only QQ+/AKs were profitable shoves when my shoves were called. :/


Bracelet Winner
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 06:38 AM
(#5)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Two thoughts Andrew,

It might be misleading to only look at QQ/JJ/AK all in spots. It might be better to look at all hands in this group where you raised ai in order to include all the times the villain folded. Compare these spots, where you are the aggressor, to all the times you Called an all in with the same hand group. Im just guessing, but we may see that shoving some hands is profitable with the added FE while calling is questionable.

Secondly, you might want to look at the same group of hands by position and action? If we are 4b jamming JJ into a nitty ep raiser, it might be a leak. Whereas if we are calling a 3b jam in a blind war it might make more sense.

Greg
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 06:40 AM
(#6)
mytton's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 181
If your stats are nitty, Andy, that must make me a super nit!

Stats for this year, pretty much all 5nl fullring:
Hands: 129k
All-In: 157 hands, +1232 bb/100
All-In (pot over 150bb): 47 hands, +1609 bb/100
The profit from those 47 hands has all come from the 11 AA instances. The rest broadly breaking even, including a loss with KK(running into AA 7 times out of 18).
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 03:12 PM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
At some point, +100bb deep, I wonder if it'd more often be more EV to just call a re-raise and see a flop with a lot of hands? Not sure what sort of filter to apply to the data to try and figure that out though ...

Last edited by TrustySam; Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 03:22 PM..
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 05:55 PM
(#8)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
Andy,

Please filter these same stats into a graph and let me know your all in ev.
Ask and you shall receive!



Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
I've only managed to get called AIPF by stacks 100bb+ three times! (150bbs is the most I ever play)
I filtered the total pot for 150BB, not getting all in when my stack is 150BB. I could've done it so the total pot was 200BB+, but I felt 150BB filtered out most of the short-stacks and #fischigespielers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
I don't read too much into the results of called all ins with AK. Remember that part of the value of jamming AK is the fold equity you leverage. Calling shoves with AKo too often might be a leak, but 4-bet jamming should be profitable, thanks to all the dead money you pick up when villains fold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
It might be misleading to only look at QQ/JJ/AK all in spots. It might be better to look at all hands in this group where you raised ai in order to include all the times the villain folded. Compare these spots, where you are the aggressor, to all the times you Called an all in with the same hand group. Im just guessing, but we may see that shoving some hands is profitable with the added FE while calling is questionable.
I agree with both of you, looking at my all-in stats in isolation isn't showing all that much. It's definitely worth looking at how I play my more marginal premium hands and looking at raising all in as opposed to calling.

Also, while this makes up such a tiny portion (0.05%) of all the hands I play, the pots are always going to be very large, by definition, so I think it's an area of my game that's worth spending some time on!
 
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Fri Apr 11, 2014, 06:09 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
If you find there's still fold equity with your 5-bet shoves after you've 4-bet, then it would seem that filtering for raises vs calls ought to yield substantially different results.

Am going to take my stats out since you've had time to see them

Last edited by TrustySam; Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 06:18 PM..
 
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Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:41 AM
(#10)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
My stats are below. I think this will be something worth reviewing in my own game. I think there are definitely times when I should not have got QQ and JJ AIPF and possibly even some times I should have taken a differnt line with KK.

 

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