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Honest opinions needed

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Honest opinions needed - Sun Apr 13, 2014, 02:59 PM
(#1)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
I would like some honest answers to this question.

Am I too easy to read ?

I have been meaning to ask this for quite a while, but never got around to it.
The reason that prompted me today is: I was playing the Sunday Storm Sat with 1,503 seats available, at all of the tables I was sat, I had no notes on any of the players ( they were all new to me ) which should mean they had no notes on me. Yet apart from 5 times every time I played a hand everyone folded I only went to showdown six times, won five and the sixth was where I went out in 2611th place having been blinded down to 2BB ( there were over 16K entrants ).

It appeared that almost all of my opponents knew when I had a decent hand, even when I was in the Big Blind and only checked.
Check, call, min raise , big raise didn't seem to make any difference.
I played a couple of hands with trash just to see if they would still fold to me, but each time I did that I was either called or raised.

How did they know ? I played the trash hands the same way I would have played AA or similar.

 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 03:20 PM
(#2)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I find you very loose passive Bill but that's only with a handful of hands. ie. you limp too much with speculative hands and then call or fold when you miss.

Do you use tracking software?


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 03:26 PM
(#3)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
I would like some honest answers to this question.

Am I too easy to read ?

I have been meaning to ask this for quite a while, but never got around to it.
The reason that prompted me today is: I was playing the Sunday Storm Sat with 1,503 seats available, at all of the tables I was sat, I had no notes on any of the players ( they were all new to me ) which should mean they had no notes on me. Yet apart from 5 times every time I played a hand everyone folded I only went to showdown six times, won five and the sixth was where I went out in 2611th place having been blinded down to 2BB ( there were over 16K entrants ).

It appeared that almost all of my opponents knew when I had a decent hand, even when I was in the Big Blind and only checked.
Check, call, min raise , big raise didn't seem to make any difference.
I played a couple of hands with trash just to see if they would still fold to me, but each time I did that I was either called or raised.

How did they know ? I played the trash hands the same way I would have played AA or similar.

If they had HUDs, they could have been reading your betting habits
Do you keep your bet sizing the same no matter?
Do you play a lot from late position but not much from mid or early?

Dont assume that all of your oppponents can see your cards, it could be that sometimes they didn't have a hand or were warry about giving it up.

Sadly, sometimes the planets dont align.

The only real tells we have on people online without HUDS are where they bet from, how often they bet and how they bet.

you can restrict reads by keeping your bet sizing the same or at least regiminted by the players you are against.. always bet the same vs 1 opp in hand #1 as hand #101, obviously as a factor of the blinds.


if you are a rock, only be 5% of hands, most opponents will fold. So mix it up with some steals, or abuse your image on a few moderate hands (like KT or some suited connectors/pairs).. you might not win that hand but taking the occasional shot on a "hit or fold" basis can adjust your image and shift your gears a little.

Also, if your opponents are overly timid, take advantage more
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 03:34 PM
(#4)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
My perception of your play is that you limp too much, but this is from a tiny sample and it was played on 14/04/13 (Almost a year ago to the day lol), so things may have changed.

Against someone that limps too much, I will be suspicious when I see them raise, and will give credit for a decent hand.

To be harder to read I think you should probably lower your limping range and increase your bet/raising range.
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 03:51 PM
(#5)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I agree with the others that you seem to limp pre-flop too often, which makes me extra wary when you do raise. However I am also wary when you limp as I expect you to play well post-flop. So if I get involved in a pot with you I expect I am going to need a made hand when you continue post-flop. I would say your tendencies make you quite hard to read as it is difficult to range your hands when you limp a wide range and to know what you have hit post-flop. But I do think you could be exploited in real money games if you play this way v regs - though you will often be able to outplay the many fish post-flop.

Obviously most of my play v Bill is from PSO Home Games and similar and these do play differently to real money MTTs against randoms. I think if you are not using tracker software you would benefit - mainly from the ability to review, look at your stats and see where your leaks are.

You ain't a bad player by any means Bill - you do well v PSO opps and I think the style you play is against the norm and confuses some as you play a different style to the 'PSO TAG' which can be tricky to read - just not sure it is optimal.

Ed


4 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Sun Apr 13, 2014 at 03:54 PM..
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 03:54 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Let me pull out my notes and I'll send you a pm.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 04:01 PM
(#7)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
I agree with the others that you seem to limp pre-flop too often, which makes me extra wary when you do raise. However I am also wary when you limp as I expect you to play well post-flop. So if I get involved in a pot with you I expect I am going to need a made hand when you continue post-flop. I would say your tendencies make you quite hard to read as it is difficult to range your hands when you limp a wide range and to know what you have hit post-flop. But I do think you could be exploited in real money games if you play this way v regs - though you will often be able to outplay the many fish post-flop.

Obviously most of my play v Bill is from PSO Home Games and similar and these do play differently to real money MTTs against randoms. I think if you are not using tracker software you would benefit - mainly from the ability to review, look at your stats and see where your leaks are.

You ain't a bad player by any means Bill - you do well v PSO opps and I think the style you play is against the norm and confuses some as you play a different style to the 'PSO TAG' which can be tricky to read - just not sure it is optimal.

Ed
Ed makes a point that you may well be different in a cash game than a MTT or STT.

I think everyone is being brutal here but I think it's what you want. There's no right way to play the game BTW so if your making a profit, tweak on what your doing.

If you've used tracking software and used up the trial try re-installing then uninstall with the free Revo Uninstaller, use a different email addy and you might be able to get a new trial again


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 06:32 PM
(#8)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
Am I too easy to read ?
In a word, yes.
I always found you quite easy to play against in the PSO homegames, because you didn't raise often enough to disguise the strength of your hands. i.e. I would nearly always give you credit for a big hand if you came out firing either pre-flop or post.
Occasionally you surprised me with a random bluff, and got me to fold the best hand, so maybe you need to mix it up more often, but don't go too crazy.

I'm sure JWK has extensive notes on your style of play, so he's the man to help you with this. Good luck!


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 06:38 PM
(#9)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
yo.....hiccup......



Guys like jwk and arty etc. are easy reads.......

They always follow the.....

never....or always.......or standard moves etc......

Where you.....I don't have a clue

Keep it up dude

Cheers
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 06:44 PM
(#10)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
But have to add..........

Bill has over the years has been nothing but class here.....

Class bill.....hiccup
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 07:02 PM
(#11)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by effsea View Post
But have to add..........

Bill has over the years has been nothing but class here.....

Class bill.....hiccup
Agreed - Bill is a class PSO member -

I also often find him more difficult to play against than PSO sharks like JWK/Lango etc - because the style is unfamiliar - but that is in PSO home game MTTs and the PowerPlay etc - not sure how that translates to real money MTT games against bigger more random fields

and I never put him on 27...like some of the fish here play

hiccup



Ed


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 07:21 PM
(#12)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
oh my...lol....ed....hiccup

have to agree......

cheers
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 07:37 PM
(#13)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Like many other players here Bill I find in the PSO games here you tend to play a loose passive style. However this is not the same as saying you are easy to read. I agree with Effsea when he says you can be unpredictable.

I would not be too concerned with the results of a single satellite, unless you feel you had an clear tell such as 4x betting premier hands only.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 07:41 PM
(#14)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
Thanks for all your input guys, it's very much appreciated.

Looks like I need to tighten up a tad and be a bit more aggressive.

 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 07:47 PM
(#15)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post

I think everyone is being brutal here but I think it's what you want. There's no right way to play the game BTW so if your making a profit, tweak on what your doing.

If you've used tracking software and used up the trial try re-installing then uninstall with the free Revo Uninstaller, use a different email addy and you might be able to get a new trial again
I can't use tracking software, have tried it but I just get confused with all that info, and it makes the table sometimes difficult to see properly. I generally time out while I am looking up the stats etc. and end up losing a hand I should have won, and I think I am too old now to use it successfully. My laptop only has a 14" screen so the stats are hard to see anyway, especially if I have more than one table going.

But thanks for the suggestion.

 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 08:21 PM
(#16)
HAPPYSAP's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 458
always enjoyed playing with you bill over the years and always wondered wot my playing style is like. BAD IM GUESSING ?
 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:10 AM
(#17)
Tonk Shuffle's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
I can't use tracking software, have tried it but I just get confused with all that info, and it makes the table sometimes difficult to see properly. I generally time out while I am looking up the stats etc. and end up losing a hand I should have won, and I think I am too old now to use it successfully. :
Some of the best players in the world do not use HUDs while they play, and they are so good that they have a hard time finding people who want to play them. Douglas Polk (WCGRider) is a good example - plays without a HUD - but always studies his sessions afterward. The best use of tracking software comes from reviewing your hands. Reviewing your hands is where you will plug your own leaks, and find common leaks in other villains.

I have some notes on you. I'll send a PM as well.
 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 03:19 AM
(#18)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
I can't use tracking software, have tried it but I just get confused with all that info, and it makes the table sometimes difficult to see properly. I generally time out while I am looking up the stats etc. and end up losing a hand I should have won, and I think I am too old now to use it successfully. My laptop only has a 14" screen so the stats are hard to see anyway, especially if I have more than one table going.

But thanks for the suggestion.

Dont need to use a HUD, some people dont

You could always do the old school method, on a piece of paper write down a 4 letter shortname for each player on a diagram of a poker table with each seat for each player. Next just make a tally for when a) they get involved in a hand voluntarily (without being checked into it) and they are the preflop raiser.

Then keep a note at the top of how many hands.
Those two stats are very important, so when you have a decision against a player and he is 5/5 out of 50 hands, you can credit him with a good holding but 35/5 out of 50 hands you wouldn't

The ratio of the first to second number is important because the closer they are together, the less that player limps and the further apart they are the more they do, especially if the first is quite high and the second is not close to or equal.

This is very old school but should give you an indication of who to avoid unless you can challenge with a strong hand and who you can reshove on a steal because they will have rags
 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:26 AM
(#19)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
I can't use tracking software, have tried it but I just get confused with all that info, and it makes the table sometimes difficult to see properly. I generally time out while I am looking up the stats etc. and end up losing a hand I should have won, and I think I am too old now to use it successfully. My laptop only has a 14" screen so the stats are hard to see anyway, especially if I have more than one table going.

But thanks for the suggestion.

Use it to analyse your own stats, get someone like Arty to look over them and tell you your major leaks. When you get those sorted you can then look for minor leaks to fix.

A HUD confused me as well when I first bought HEM. It actually turned me from a winning to a losing player as I tried to read too much from it. I now use a HUD as a tool for extra information. I use a pretty simple HUD and just use it to give me a rough indicator of the player I'm up against. It's now enabled me to stack tables and play more at the same time. I can honestly say it's the best poker investment I've made.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:03 PM
(#20)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by effsea View Post
yo.....hiccup......



Guys like jwk and arty etc. are easy reads.......

They always follow the.....

never....or always.......or standard moves etc......

Where you.....I don't have a clue

Keep it up dude

Cheers

Looking at that today.....hiccup.....looks harsh....my bad,

I have nothing but respect for their game....l should have said....

Their style of play ( being by the book ) for me I find them a easy read, well some what

If I see standard play, its pretty easy to make the next play....

as for you.......I got no clue

So....if I ever make a final table ever again.....hiccup.....

I want players like them at the table......not you

Cheers Man
 

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