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10nl zoom 6m - thin value shove on the river with TPTK, 3-straight/3-flush board

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10nl zoom 6m - thin value shove on the river with TPTK, 3-straight/3-flush board - Sun Apr 13, 2014, 04:18 PM
(#1)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hi everybody


This is a follow-up to a previous hand I posted a while ago, where a lot of people thought I should have just shoved the river rather than bet small to get called.

Do people like my shove here? Or was it maybe too big a bet to expect to be called by worse?





Thanks for the help again


EDIT: Villain was a 1-tabler from Canada
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 04:26 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I think the hand was played perfectly.

The river shove isn't too thin at all in my opinion. We figure to have the nuts here. I think he shoves the river himself if he has a value hand because there is a chance you can check behind with showdown value after being called twice.

Way it was played, I guess he was on a flush draw and was waiting for a heart, I'm not concerned with a diamond draw.
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 04:28 PM
(#3)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Wow, you were so fast, I was still adding stuff to the OP!

Here's the link to my last hand lol: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...a-Q-high-board


Ehh ... my head sometimes turns to mush when it comes to ranging on wet boards - it's def on my list of things to keep practicing. Great point that the villain might have been chasing a heart draw.


Looking forward to the day you're an official HA bhoy
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 06:25 PM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,363
It would be thinner if you hadn't made top two.
Since you and villain have less than a PSB, I guess you should go for max value here. Villain will occasionally have a slowplayed set, but he could equally be getting sticky with AQ-AT, or even A9/A5/A4 that didn't raise when it was ahead. A lot of the time, villain has a busted heart draw like bhoy said. Since you have the nut blocker and the Kd is on the board, villain isn't going to have diamonds very often, unless he got to the river with specifically T9dd or 98dd.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Apr 13, 2014, 06:37 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
It would be thinner if you hadn't made top two.
Since you and villain have less than a PSB, I guess you should go for max value here. Villain will occasionally have a slowplayed set, but he could equally be getting sticky with AQ-AT, or even A9/A5/A4 that didn't raise when it was ahead. A lot of the time, villain has a busted heart draw like bhoy said. Since you have the nut blocker and the Kd is on the board, villain isn't going to have diamonds very often, unless he got to the river with specifically T9dd or 98dd.


Apparently my +50k downswing might be over, since I made 2pr on the river and I wasn't already drawing dead lol. Now if I could just stop playing like a clown, I might actually be able to make some $


Thanks for the added help with the ranging arty - sometimes once the hand's already happened, I have a hard time going back and seeing things with fresh eyes, so that helps a lot
 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:05 AM
(#6)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
not a fan of river bigbet....
wut u expect to get called by ? i think, before river, worse twopair will bet/raise themself most often, dont u ? So the only think u can hope for is dat he made worse twopair OTR, and only poss hand is like K9....
And also u can hope to get called by some weak TPWK like AT ... but since u showed strength preflop + every street.... its not very likely unless he is total donk(even fishes are not this stupid often)

so i would prefer smallbet(though it looks like valuebet but some fishes just think like its so small i have to calll with TPWK), but wut can u do since he is OOP and checked OTR... he looks like he gave up... so u could get away even as a bluff with smaller size, since looks like missed flush draw

Last edited by NaturoSasuki; Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:08 AM..
 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:28 AM
(#7)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
I like it, although it does look very strong given that you bet all the way into so many people. We block the Nutbackdoorflush which is good and with villain's line it is also quite likely for him to have a weaker Ax type hand. We could bet less than a shove but honestly I feel we can get just as many calls for a bigger amount.


Live Trainer



 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 07:08 AM
(#8)
A Beatmaker's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 74
maybe bet bigger OTT. tha river shove will look smaler
 
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Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:48 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
@Felix - oh that's a good point, that here I bet the turn rather than check behind like I did with the last hand. And there were two people still in the pot, so that looked very strong.

That's a relief to hear you still think a decent amount of villains might be just as willing to call a shove as a bet on the river - hopefully next time the villain has Ax and calls


@GL - usually I'd bet smaller, hoping to get called. Guess there's that thing too of like, when we bet more, we don't have to get called as often? So even though some villains might fold a hand like AJ, AT on the river after calling two streets, with so much $ in the middle, maybe enough villains would call as well to make the shove better in the long-run? Because last time I mini-bet the river to ensure a call, everybody recommended next time I shove ... so this is 'next time' lol. Decided to give that alternate line try, and will keep trying - will keep everybody posted on how things go ... hopefully okay!


@ABeatmaker - guess that was an option too - think I was worried about someone having a set, but gosh now that you mention it, maybe adding as little as like 30c on the turn more might have made the villain more likely to call a river shove with A. Am not at the point yet where I plan ahead, so my stack management for multi-way and 3-bet pots is terrible - need to work on that


Thanks so much everybody for stopping - your feedback's helped a lot!

Last edited by TrustySam; Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 09:59 PM..
 

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