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2nl 6max zoom open ended straight draw on turn, 3 way

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2nl 6max zoom open ended straight draw on turn, 3 way - Fri Apr 18, 2014, 01:09 PM
(#1)
craig121212's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 246


Looking back on it this seems pretty bad play from me, thoughts?
 
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Fri Apr 18, 2014, 03:32 PM
(#2)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
Pre – You should bet more min 0.08, 0.1 is better, because you mostly have the best hand and also position. It’s ok to check flop, so no need to stress about that yet. Villain 4 now has good odds to call, so when he calls, as utg limbers do 85% of the time, he mostly does not make a mistake. Obviously now when the blinds call, this doesn’t really make difference.

OTT: You need to call 1.32, and the final tot pot is 3.76, thus you need 1.32/3.76 = 0.35 = 35% to win. You are basically hoping K to come, meaning you have 4x2=8% to win. Because people sometimes play funnily 2NL, lets give you also 3 aces to win too (mind you because flop is so coordinated aces usually are NOT outs), meaning that in the best possible outcome you have 7 outs = 7x2 = 14% to win, and you need 35%, thus calling the turn is very wrong.

I would still just call flop, and fold turn.

If you really love to gamble, don’t gamble turn, but shove flop. Remember aggression is the key, so in cases you know you will call big money, but you don’t actually know if calling is ok, just shove. But calling flop, imo, was better.
 
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Fri Apr 18, 2014, 03:36 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,831
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I totally agree with braveslice. I'd play it the same way that they recommend.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:27 PM
(#4)
craig121212's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 246
I usually bet more on preflop against a limper. Was playing 4 tables at the time and didn't notice (had sat out by the turn).

I also thought 8's could be outs. I have a Q so lower possibility of someone else having one. So that's 11 outs. With the possibility of it being less. so 9-10 outs is probably more likely. So i'm closer to 20%.

But yes I agree, badly played.
 
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Mon Apr 21, 2014, 05:37 PM
(#5)
MRSWAT's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
Well first off I think even if you had bet .10 you would have been called (at least by one player).

Now considering there was a bet from the SB and a call from UTG. It tells me that at least one of the two has some sort of draw at very least, if not a lot more.

I actually don't mind the call on the turn for a couple of reasons:

-if you raise here, given the stack sizes of your opps, you are not likely going to be called. More likely you will be shoved back at and you will be drawing to win the pot at least to some degree.
-you also are able to see the turn for fairly cheap. I would say normally an 8 would be good here (not this time obviously).

Now that said, if you shove the flop, again you are only being called by something that has you beat at this time and face the same prospect of drawing possibly very thin. When the UTG player shoves on the turn I figure they have to the straight, or a VERY HEAVY draw (example AsQs). I would be more compelled to believe it's not the draw in most cases.

So when you call the all-in IMO you definitely did with the worst of it. That would have been the bad play here. Not the call on the flop (at least IMO).
 
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Wed Apr 23, 2014, 10:12 AM
(#6)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
craig, yes my bad. I went middle of typing to google to find how many outs one can count and kind of messed the out calculations. (Didn’t find an answer)

I did some EV calculations without success. It came clear though that V4 usually don’t have JJ or TT -> he would raise them usually not limp – but his limping range has lots of 2 pairs and low strs.
 
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Wed Apr 23, 2014, 07:58 PM
(#7)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Yeah I agree with what braveslice said also!
 

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