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Bet check lead line

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Bet check lead line - Mon Apr 21, 2014, 01:47 PM
(#1)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I was just doing the quiz on leakbuster and was wondering what everyone thinks of the line they recommend with KQ on K high dry boards.

So we have have KQ on a K74 flop 2 turn with 4 different river cards

So the action goes bet flop x/c a small bet on the turn and lead the river on a 5 Q or a K.

We lead small on the K and 5 half pot on the Q and on an A river were x/f to any bet.

What does everyone make of this line? I dont even remember having to take such a line OOP. I think i might be x/c turn and checking river and maybe missing some value here on the un improved river anyway.
 
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Mon Apr 21, 2014, 03:59 PM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Did we call pre-flop in blinds or were we the PFR in position?


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Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:58 AM
(#3)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
We iso raised from BB vs to limpers, villains are unknown.
 
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Tue Apr 22, 2014, 03:13 PM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
In that case, it's a really weird line. I would bet flop, then check(-call) turn and check-call river whatever cards come off.
I'm finding that there is much more value in checking the turn and river with top pair than bet-folding with it. (This strategy seemed very weird to me when I saw Sandtrap utilizing it, but - guess what - it works!).
Although we're commonly told (indeed I've said it often myself) that "Villains don't bluff all that often in the micros", they actually do if you show weakness by checking the turn, or even the flop. When you lead the river with one pair, villain snap-folds all his air, and usually only calls or raises with better hands, so betting for "value" seems theoretically unsound.

FWIW, when I last looked at Leakbuster about 2 years ago, I completely rejected some of the advice, particularly with regard to the old "stop and go" play of calling flop, leading turn with something like AJ on Axxx. That's just stupid imo. In my opinion, the best way to play today's aggressive games involves a lot of bluff-catching when you're OOP.


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Wed Apr 23, 2014, 01:08 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,496
(Head Trainer)
Hmmm, I feel like KQ is too strong to check turn as it will tend to lose us value vs. the top pair components of their range while also offering a free card to 2nd pair, gut shots, etc that peeled the flop.

I would like to have some top pair combos in my turn check/call range to protect my weaker pairs like JJ that I would check/call turn, check/fold most rivers... so when I get to the river as a caller on the turn I have some combos strong enough to check/call again (otherwise the can just run over us by blasting away whenever we check). But like I said, KQ is too strong for this imo, I might hold back some combos of KJ/KT for this and bet KQ for value.


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Thu Apr 24, 2014, 04:05 PM
(#6)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Ok cheers guys, what do you both think about x/f the river on an A after x/c the brick turn, this looks like a good spot for villain to turn his weak pair into a bluff knowing we either have Kx or a smaller pair that beats his.

I would x/b the turn with anything but a K i think not sure if thats good but i dont see the point in betting them pairs on the turn to protect vs high cards with only one card to come. I spose i have draws or Kx on the turn if i bet then, i normally x/b Ax on the urn if i decided to flat what do you think about that play.

If i check back turn though i would normally bet river with A high because i dont want lose a pot to 22.
 
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Fri Apr 25, 2014, 07:32 AM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
It's a pretty weird spot if the hand is still 3-handed on the river, as a bet there by the first player would be fairly strong. If it was heads up, then if I check the turn with top pair, I check-call all rivers, like I said. The whole point of checking the turn and river is to induce a river bluff that you snap-call. After all, how does Ax even get to the river, if a limper called the K74 flop and bet the turn? I think KQ is going to be good often enough to make the call.


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Sat Apr 26, 2014, 08:50 AM
(#8)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Yh i agree, sometimes i wish i never read some stuff i see online it just complicates things, especially maths calculations i cant eve remember how many times ive had to look at the pot odds calculations in the poker blueprint to refresh my memory even though i was doing it right just because ive looked at a different way of doing things and then it baffles me.
 

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