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10NL 6max - raise KQo co then btn 3bet - how and why can I do this?

10NL 6max - raise KQo co then btn 3bet - how and why can I do this? - Wed Apr 23, 2014, 02:35 AM
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
This is another no read situation my KQo cut off raise vs button 3bet...

So the note for later was:
We raise KQo co then btn 3bet we call - how and why later

You may think my river bluff is bad. But play it from two points of view, hero vs villain and "How and Why"... What didn't happen?

PS. If I forget this post tomorrow, 2 clues:
1) obligatory flop cbet too big
2) turn bet not big enough zero

Last edited by ForrestFive; Wed Apr 23, 2014 at 02:55 AM.. Reason: boom link / clues
Wed Apr 23, 2014, 07:07 AM
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Well i would just fold pre flop, even if this guy had a 10% 3b how do you expect to make money flatting KQo OOP without the initiative?
Wed Apr 23, 2014, 09:33 AM
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
If we give him 3B range of 5% {JJ+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+}

When he checks the turn, his range is something like: {AJs+, KQs, AQo+}

Thus the bluff OTR is profitable imo, as there is no calling range usually. Given that he reads (can read) you to {TT,JJ,QQ}

Btw, against that range KQ fairs badly with 27% equity, so without reads it sounds bad to call 3B.
There is a chance though that KQs would be good canditate to call, i'm not sure, even though it only gets 31% eq.

Last edited by braveslice; Wed Apr 23, 2014 at 09:54 AM..
Wed Apr 23, 2014, 11:19 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi Forrest,

I don't think the river bluff is bad, it's good, but the rest of the hand I think is bad.

Open raising is good but I think we should fold to the 3b, playing a 3b pot out of position without the initiative and with a hand that is dominated by his entire 3b value range is a huge leak tbh, you've got to work on plugging that. Like Mike said, what is your plan here, how are you playing it profitably over the long run? Also you play readless so you don't know if he has any 3b bluff range or not, but if he does a fair bit of it is probably ahead anyway, A-rag suited type hands.

On the flop, I don't care to float out of position here. Our back door draws are weak, being only back doors to a gut shot, or 3rd nut flush draw, and if we hit a K or Q we are still not thrilled should villain double barrel.

Most villains would c-bet the turn with JJ+ on this board so once the turn goes check/check, I think bluffing the blank river is good. A lot of his range is now ace high so KQ has little showdown value but can definitely get those ace high hands to fold. 3 of diamonds would have been a much better river for us to bluff, but I think it's still profitable when we make the larger sized bet. If the river was the 3d I think we can bluff more profitably by virtue of both a smaller bet size to get the job done and probably a higher fold frequency from ace high.

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