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odd reraise....

Old
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odd reraise.... - Fri Dec 06, 2002, 10:32 PM
(#1)
Deleted user
Freeroll - nolimit holdem - 43 players sign in

1h 15minutes - antes 100 - blinds 300 / 600

23 players stil in - avg stack 19k


Starting hand #11352838

Clay Knight starts with $26,125
Jennay starts with $28,400
"spades" starts with $6,675
BMC starts with $7,050
Martan starts with $13,650
RCMorea starts with $20,650
Shakingmyhead starts with $18,450
Shakingmyhead has the dealer button

>>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<

"spades" dealt down 9h 9d
Clay Knight posts the ante $100
Jennay posts the ante $100
"spades" posts the ante $100
BMC posts the ante $100
Martan posts the ante $100
RCMorea posts the ante $100
Shakingmyhead posts the ante $100
Clay Knight posts the small blind $300
Jennay posts the big blind $600
Martan: nh
CHANTED: nh

"spades" raises $4,200 to $4,800

BMC folds
Martan folds
RCMorea folds
Shakingmyhead folds

Clay Knight raises $4,200 to $9,000

Jennay folds

"spades" calls $1,775 and is all-in

Clay Knight shows cards Kc Jh 8O 8O 8O

"spades" shows cards 9d 9h

>>>DEALING FLOP<<< [ As 3c Kd ]
>>>DEALING TURN<<< [ 6c ]
>>>DEALING RIVER<<< [ 2d ]
"spades": ???
Clay Knight wins $2,425
Clay Knight wins $14,450
Clay Knight won with a pair of kings
"spades" finishes in 23rd place :evil:


i like to see comments on that reraise (or better) on that call with a KJ...

i didnt understand it...clay know the way i play so he should guess i had a pp...and maybe a bigger pp or a AK

spades 8O
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 06, 2002, 10:45 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
First, I don't understand your initial raise - if you're going to raise that much, you might as well raise all in. Second, Clay at 26K has two overcards if you have a pair under JJ - so it is costing him 6.5K to possibly win 16K. I'm not saying it's a correct call - but if he had you on an underpair to his KJ, it's not a terrible call, and it won't bust him if he loses.
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 06, 2002, 10:51 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
I can see it
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 06, 2002, 11:08 PM
(#4)
Deleted user
hazy

or i will limp with 99 early on and may gota face a raise later (and decide to go or fold and loose 600)

or ill raise big enough to buy the blinds (going all in or raising the amount i had raise doesnt make any diference in my oppinion)

ive raised 7 times the bb..i think making it more 2 bb doenst make much diference..if you got a hand to call a 5k early raise you got a hand to call 7k

in other way i may get to see the flop with one or 2 players and not been all in up to there...then ill have to decide to go all in depending on

off course i am too comitted but i didnt expect to see a caller/raiser

clay raise didnt scare me cause ive seen too many times is bluffs...stil im amazed with a reraise with KJ on the sb which FORCES me to go all in...and clay knows that im calling him

with that information...did you reraise with a KJ ??? that is my main question..forget about my raise

i may reraise with 93o in early pos and stil win the blinds and you will never know !!! but reraising with a KJ ???

just amazed..maybe im wrong

spades
 
Old
Default
Sat Dec 07, 2002, 09:53 AM
(#5)
Deleted user
Spades, on the 99. Why not raise 3 times the BB?

Then you still got chips.

The KJ, bad bad play.


Just My Opinion.


Rg
 
Old
Default
Sat Dec 07, 2002, 09:55 AM
(#6)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazyone
but if he had you on an underpair to his KJ, it's not a terrible call, and it won't bust him if he loses.
True, but Spades has other very plausible holdings where KJ is in terrible shape.
 
Old
Default
Sat Dec 07, 2002, 10:42 AM
(#7)
Deleted user
With your stack size, it is borderline between either moving all-in or raising to 1800. Clay just fancied gambling against a smaller stack that he put on an underpair, but he sucks anyway lol.
 
Old
Default
Sat Dec 07, 2002, 01:46 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
actaully spades your raise with the 99 would have made me think you had small to middle PP or AJ,AQ.

with KJ and the stack clay i had i would have been tempted to put you all in trying to take out a player that i would consider a problem to me winning the event.

if the KJ win i get rid of a threat and have a very nice stack if i lose then i still have above average stack and time to wait for another hand to gamble on.
 
Old
Default
Sat Dec 07, 2002, 07:35 PM
(#9)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironside
actaully spades your raise with the 99 would have made me think you had small to middle PP or AJ,AQ.
You want to take on a AJ with your KJ ?? That's 72% in favour of the AJ according to the very fine "World Poker Diary" odds chart.

AQ vs KJ is 64% or so.

I can't see any reason here for even a call. The best you can expect is an underpair to the KJ, but there are many worse scenarios.
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 08, 2002, 02:01 AM
(#10)
Deleted user
one thing here is missing...the way table was playing

Q5o raise preflop UTG early on the game (1st hand or so)

i had AQ and made a 2 times BB raise preflop got called by a 68o that hits a 6 on flop went all in and hit a 8 on river

that information about the table is important here

if i made a small raise i will be called by the usual rags for sure

i am utg at that time and im willing to go all in with that...making that raise or going all in will not make much diference at that point

i see your point iron..but anyway are you willing to call with KJ even to a small pp ???

i know i dont

spades
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 08, 2002, 11:36 AM
(#11)
Deleted user
Spades, I'm not a good big bet player, but FWIW I would have done the same as Clay given the extended range of hands you may be on as the short stack in this situation.

In fact with these actual hands Clay had good odds to call (not to raise) due to the dead money. I put you as the 5-4 favorite. Had you gone all-in it would have changed the pot odds to be virtually worthless (5-4) for Clay to call!

Another thought here is that you may have a leak with your betting pattern. At least in this case you didn't manipulate Clay into foldiing. You were pot committed at $4200 I think, so should have raised all in. Had you raised $2000 you would have had a good bet available post flop. Had you called, going for the set, it would have cost too much. Maybe Clay will tell us what he would have done to other bets?

Inquiring minds want to know. :lol: , Den
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 08, 2002, 12:24 PM
(#12)
Deleted user
Spades' pre-flop bet was effectively all-in.
I don't think the size of the bet was an issue - he was totally pot-committed and had to be treated as if he were all-in.
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 08, 2002, 01:38 PM
(#13)
Deleted user
clay had 4-5 times spades stack

spades was in effect the short stack at the table i would have been trying to get out of the tourny.
if clay had lost he would still have about 2 times the stack of spades.

getting a tough player like spades out of an event when he is short and presents no real risk to my stack is IMHO a solid tatic.

when spades raised he should have raised all in as glen said it was in affect an all in raise when he over bet the pot comminting himself to it and failed to go all in it would have told me middle PP and that if called and overcards fallen (without a set ) he would have been fuming at the fact he never went all in and folded.
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 08, 2002, 06:10 PM
(#14)
Deleted user
in fact i am not happy at all with my play there

i rather limp with 99 in early position then raise 2 or 3 times bb with that

but nevertheless i think clay is raising or calling any bet ive made there

the issue to me is stil wether you call with KJ to a possible AK,AQ AJ at least or to a pp

spades
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 08, 2002, 06:48 PM
(#15)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by spades
in fact i am not happy at all with my play there

i rather limp with 99 in early position then raise 2 or 3 times bb with that

but nevertheless i think clay is raising or calling any bet ive made there

the issue to me is stil wether you call with KJ to a possible AK,AQ AJ at least or to a pp

spades
You don't limp with 99 in early position, when there is an ante and such shallow money. Usually KJ should fold.
 
Old
Default
Mon Dec 09, 2002, 07:21 PM
(#16)
Deleted user
why is that noodles??

pp's (specially small ones) are great to limp with

even AA and KK are great to limp in early position and to reraise to a raise after you preflop

why you saying 99 is not goot to limp in ?? (not considering the short stack i had at that time)

would like to see your comments about that

spades 8)
 
Old
Default
Mon Dec 09, 2002, 08:12 PM
(#17)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by spades
why is that noodles??

pp's (specially small ones) are great to limp with

even AA and KK are great to limp in early position and to reraise to a raise after you preflop

why you saying 99 is not goot to limp in ?? (not considering the short stack i had at that time)

would like to see your comments about that

spades 8)
I didn't say 99 were not good enough to limp with, just that you shouldn't limp in that situation. I thought I already said why - the dead money in the pot, stack sizes etc. Raise or fold.

limp on deep money, when the money in the pot is not a significant proportion of the stacks.
 

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