Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

5nl FR Zoom - KK

5nl FR Zoom - KK - Mon May 05, 2014, 02:56 PM
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

Could you please analyse my hand below.

following stats on villain that are not much help,

50/38/8.0 3bet 16.7 16 hands

I thought there could have been overpairs and FDs in his range, considering the flop was so dry.



Last edited by pullin1988; Mon May 05, 2014 at 03:09 PM..
Mon May 05, 2014, 03:25 PM
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
Before the cards are dealt, straight away i hate how many callers we have, KK plays terrible multi-way.
I am saying to myself as more and more call "I need to be careful here"

Not only that, the board paired and we have 2 hearts... yikes (squared) + its zoom, zoom adds an extra level of creepy variance that you reckon only to get strong action when you are beat.

For me, I am checking here as my position is terrible.

- we didn't opt to check, we c-bet and we got raised - not good. We are either being floated here or our opponent has something, I say due to how many callers we got, our opponent has either a strong pair or 9s, outside chance of floating with Ace-High hearts. I am not calling this bet...
- on the turn, You immediately slowed down when you got called, rightly so because you likely didn't expect that action and didn't know what to do. Here, we should be check/folding.. we are in a jam but we still have a fold button we can use - We called the turn bet? --- I don't know what we are doing now, we seem to have gone from preflop monster, flop aggressor to calling station, in our heart of hearts we can't believe we are ahead here and although we are setting ourselves up to play for a small pot, its on someone elses terms and if we hold KK and they are driving the action, what can we beat?
- on the river, we are surely going to check/fold here right? - If our goal was to play for a small pot it failed by the river because our opponent is putting us all in for about 3/4 of the pot --- fold 100% here

Now, i have made this mistake so many times. Overvaluing KK, especially in a multi-way pot.
There is a general rule that you will hit the flop well 30% of the time.
So if you are against 1 opponent, and you don't hit (hitting well for you would have been a dry board or a King) then there is a 30% chance he did hit but a 60% chance he didn't.. which is good

Now if you have 3 opponents, each with a 1/3 chance of flopping well, it doesnt take a maths wizz to realize that odds are, 1 of them did.

You didn't have position as well, going into multi-way without position is like walking into a mindfield.
Although it looks weak because you were PRF, leading or not leading here only matters to how much you might lose and KK in this spot loses more than it wins, so why waste the chips.

You went from being the aggressor to the calling station. I would really like to know if you thought you were ahead here or not? It seemed like at the river you thought you were.

KK can see a showdown in a pot like this but only if the pot is kept small, the second your opponent wants to drive up the price, you need to be asking why and judging if you really are still ahead.

Its easy for me to judge with hindsight being 20/20 but its clear who the aggressor was in this headsup, it wasn't you and since you were holding KK, if someone out there is out aggressing you, those KK should be shrivlling up in value.
Mon May 05, 2014, 03:57 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,308
Bet-calling the flop is OK, but fold the turn. Although villain has some overpairs in his range, I think he has trips or a boat pretty often too when he barrels. It would be pretty bad for villain to barrel with TT when you called the flop raise, as your range looks exactly like TT+.

I don't mind check-calling the flop actually, to keep the pot-size under control and to induce bluffs and v-bets by worse hands, although it makes the hand harder to play, as you're check-guessing somewhat.

Bracelet Winner
Tue May 06, 2014, 05:43 AM
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Thanks for your response baud2death.

I indeed didn't like the fact that the pot went so multiway.

I still think I can cbet or X/C the flop depending on how much I get raised because the flop is dryish. There isn't any possible straights, and any FD draws out there don't have a made hand yet.

I think it was on the turn I made the mistake.

Quote: "I would really like to know if you thought you were ahead here or not?".
I did think there is the possibility that villain could have 22s or 99s, etc, but in all honestly I my exact thought was "I don't believe you, and you are trying to get me off my hand because I called your bluff attempt on the flop beacause you probably think I missed with AK". Thats exactly what I thought and why I went with it. I just thought he might have been one of those maniac players.

I have seen villains raise these flop types, and bet all streets with nothing.

It happed to me the other day. I had AQ, flopped the nuts (Full house) villain raises the flop (i guess because he thinks I have nothing, or he is repping a strong hand) and I call down only for him to turn over K4s where he did not connect at all.

This situation that I described above is different however, because I had the hand that he was probably trying to rep, and so since it was more unlikely for him to have the hand (since I had AQ, on AQQ board) then I guess his hand was more swayed to a bluff attempt, etc). Whereas the KK hand, I wasn't blocking anything.

Arty, again cheers for the reponses to my posts.



Last edited by pullin1988; Tue May 06, 2014 at 05:45 AM..

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com