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NL10 - Facing 4bet with QQ 200bb

NL10 - Facing 4bet with QQ 200bb - Mon May 05, 2014, 10:01 PM
pockettones's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 151
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10, $0.02 ante No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
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BB: $24.18 (241.8 bb)
MP: $20.25 (202.5 bb)
CO: $86.36 (863.6 bb)
BTN: $33.51 (335.1 bb)
Hero (SB): $20.22 (202.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q Q
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.25, Hero raises to $0.80, BB raises to $2.75, BTN folds, Hero raises to $6, BB raises to $9.25, Hero raises to $20.20 and is all-in, BB calls $10.95

Flop: ($40.75) J T 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: ($40.75) 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($40.75) 8 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

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So I think I totally messed up here. I think I should either flat or fold, 5 betting I think Im up against AA and KK all the time if he shove and I put too much money in the pot to fold.

Villain is 30/17/3.8 over 123, looking back I see he hasn't 3bet the sb or bb once so it looks like AK/KK/AA. Im not sure if folding QQ here is nitty but Im oop and this guy doesnt 3b that much, let alone 4bet.
Mon May 05, 2014, 10:02 PM
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Uber standard stack off for deep ante 200bb deep BvB.
Tue May 06, 2014, 04:48 AM
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
I agree you are up against AA/KK/AK almost always in this situation, so I would prob have just called the 4-bet, and bet/fold flop.
Tue May 06, 2014, 05:40 AM
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
Its mostly about what you will stack off with
If your stack-off range is QQ-AA, then its fine.

I personally prefer a KK-AA in cash games

If you believe your opponent could have been stacking off with much less, then your QQ get ++ value

I don't like seeing flops with KK or QQ when i have the chance to stack off and thats my goal.

Sometimes you just need to get it in and accept the variance.
Tue May 06, 2014, 10:01 AM
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Vs a cold 4b from an unknown this deep I would rather flat than get it in right here. 100bb deep or with some info I may be more inclined to stack off.

Edit: Didn't see we had info on villain. With what we have to go on its definately a flat or even a fold to the cold 4b

Last edited by Low Rated; Tue May 06, 2014 at 10:13 AM..
Tue May 06, 2014, 11:20 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi all,

I don't favor stacking off here tbh. Sorry to birdayy, but I don't think this is uber standard. And, it's not blind v blind, as we've 3b the button open. We are dealing with a villain who thus far 3-bets apparently only for value mostly, and in this hand is cold 4-betting... The range assessments that this is KK+/AK are probably close. It is certainly KK+. It may or may not include AK. pockettones you are missing some key information in your decision relating to ranging the big blind player... what is the dynamic here? For example, if the button is frequently stealing, and we have been 3-betting those steals relentlessly, then it's fair to include all combos of AK in the BB's cold 4b range, and perhaps JJ, TT, maybe even AQs. Now we're in much better shape. If we are a tight 3-bettor who doesn't attack steal position opens, then we should look strong and the BB may not even 4-bet AK on this depth of money.

Also, one thing no one's noted... I think when a villain like this min-6bets, his range is exactly AA, and we can make a tight but disciplined fold not having the proper price to set mine. I suspect birdayy will say how crazy exploitable that is, which is true, but this guy isn't exploiting us. If he's going with AKs or JJ in a spot like this, he will almost certainly 6b shove, not click it back.

I would generally call the 4b, check/call this flop, c/f to a turn bet.

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