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How to play SB vs BB !

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How to play SB vs BB ! - Tue May 06, 2014, 07:23 PM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I know I made mistake in this hand, but got lucky on the river. Can you plz point out all the things I did right and wrong. And what's the best way to play.

This SB vs BB is the most difficult situation to figure out.



STATS :
 
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Wed May 07, 2014, 07:01 PM
(#2)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I think everything is good here until the river. River I would have check/shoved I guess. Shove OTR is fine too.

Where do you think the mistake is?

Last edited by dirt eh; Wed May 07, 2014 at 07:05 PM..
 
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Wed May 07, 2014, 07:35 PM
(#3)
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
I know I made mistake in this hand, but got lucky on the river. Can you plz point out all the things I did right and wrong. And what's the best way to play.

This SB vs BB is the most difficult situation to figure out.



STATS :
I'd like to point out a few things about this hand. The preflop pot is tiny in comparison to your stack. You do not need to steal it. Steal pots that are worth 15% of your stack, minimum. Also, the BB is a short stack. Avoid! They're nervous and running out of time . Your steal is like a fish hook.
In general, we want to steal with cards that have good post flop equity. Equity meaning ability to hit outs. Say we have A5s . And our opponent has A5o . Both hands are face up. The flop comes K 7 2 semi wet.
Now luckily, our A5s matches that flop. We have a flush draw. Score! We now have 11 outs. Any flush card to win . Any of the other 2 aces to tie. Our opponent only has 2 outs and they are worthless.
Now say we do not know the cards of our villain. Which is always. That K 7 2 semi wet board has given us 12 outs to win the pot. I mentioned equity. Our equity is our outs multiplied by 4 on the flop and 2 on the turn. So on the flop we have 48 % equity in this pot. We can expect to win this pot a lot. We can plan aggression. We bet. We miss on the turn. But, alas, we still have 24% equity in this pot.We can continue aggression, preferably get a fold and if not hit out enough to profit. `If we had A5o , our equity on the turn would be 6% to hit our ace. We would be spewing. I hope this helps.

Last edited by awmm83; Wed May 07, 2014 at 08:14 PM..
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 03:25 PM
(#4)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
I think everything is good here until the river. River I would have check/shoved I guess. Shove OTR is fine too.

Where do you think the mistake is?
I always make mistake in a hand I am sure about it

If I knew where I go wrong in these kind of SB vs BB situation, I would not be asking it here. I would be working on it.
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 04:35 PM
(#5)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
I always make mistake in a hand I am sure about it

If I knew where I go wrong in these kind of SB vs BB situation, I would not be asking it here. I would be working on it.
Personally I don't think that there is a mistake. This is why I'm asking...
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 04:40 PM
(#6)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
Personally I don't think that there is a mistake. This is why I'm asking...
Thanks, I haven't seen someone say that about my hand in a while.
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 04:53 PM
(#7)
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
The bet you called on the turn was the same amount as the preflop pot. The plan is to steal blinds . Not to pay them .You could have lost your stack chasing a no hoper. on the turn your odds were 16 % to hit. Imagine Jose Mourinho had a 16% win rate. He'd be sacked in the morning. Sacked in the morning................!
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 05:44 PM
(#8)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by awmm83 View Post
The bet you called on the turn was the same amount as the preflop pot. The plan is to steal blinds . Not to pay them .You could have lost your stack chasing a no hoper. on the turn your odds were 16 % to hit. Imagine Jose Mourinho had a 16% win rate. He'd be sacked in the morning. Sacked in the morning................!
AWMM83, what are you talking about? We're getting 4:1 to make a call OTT. Those odds aren't good enough for you? I think the possible mistake was shoving OTR. I think we should have checked and hope that the villain stacks off here.

We call the turn bet and miss we still have 69bbs left!!!! What's the problem? Where do you get 16% to hit? what are you talking about a no hoper?
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 05:59 PM
(#9)
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
AWMM83, what are you talking about? We're getting 4:1 to make a call OTT. Those odds aren't good enough for you? I think the possible mistake was shoving OTR. I think we should have checked and hope that the villain stacks off here.

We call the turn bet and miss we still have 69bbs left!!!! What's the problem? Where do you get 16% to hit? what are you talking about a no hoper?
If you'd bother to read my 1st post you'd know why it's 16%

4:1 odds are garbage . You need 7 to 1 to call. And it's a tournament where every chip's priceless.

Read before you leap!
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 07:06 PM
(#10)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I read your first post. And it sounds like you copied this word for word from a book. This is a situation that doesn't apply in this hand. Not sure where you get 16% from are we worried about a heart? Have you put the villain on a range? WHY DO WE ONLY HAVE 16%? I'm very confused here. We are getting 4:1 immediate odds... we're not factoring in implied odds?

Let's look at stack sizes here...
HERO: 78bbs
VILLAIN: 28bbs

Worst case scenario we're left we 50bbs!

We have an M of 29.6
Villain has an M of 10.2

So what's the conclusion here? Well the only problem here is that the villain has a perfect re-shove stack size preflop. Are we going to stack off to their re-shove pre? No we're not.

Let's go back to the turn... I guess you're putting the villain on a flush draw? Well if this is the case then I'm BET/FOLDING OTT. Now that I think about it, BET/FOLDING OTT is probably the best play in this hand considering it's very possible that the villain has a flush draw.

So yes, I guess the XC OTT is bad. You're right.

Not every chip counts in MTT... every chip counts in CASH a lot more than it does in MTT.
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 07:53 PM
(#11)
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
Another error. An M of 20 is the sweet spot for re-stealing. Enough of this tit for tat. G'day.
 
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Thu May 08, 2014, 09:11 PM
(#12)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by awmm83 View Post
Another error. An M of 20 is the sweet spot for re-stealing. Enough of this tit for tat. G'day.
Wow you're a strange individual.

M of 20 - 10 is good to re-steal… as in 3-BET!!! lol
M of 10 or less your only play should be all in or fold vs an open.

Reading books in one thing. Playing is another. I would suggest playing more than reading.

Note that I didn't say re-steal above… I said re-shove… but anyway it would be a value shove… So ya...

Last edited by dirt eh; Thu May 08, 2014 at 09:21 PM..
 
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Fri May 09, 2014, 10:44 AM
(#13)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Hi all!

The steal preflop is all dependent on who's in the big blind. Unfortunately your HUD doesn't have a name associated with the stats, which I would highly recommend adding, because occasionally the software puts the HUDs in the wrong places, particularly if you switch tables, so you want to make sure you're not mixing up people's stats.

Anyway, assuming villain is the 18/16/9 guy, this is probably a decent candidate to be stealing against as he's pretty tight and he's not got a whole bunch of chips so he might already be in shove/fold mode vs a steal. Responding to what awmm said, this hand has some postflop playability although of course it would be nice if it were suited. However we're playing the opponent more than our cards in this instance. That's not to say I'd open up any two cards (although that is an option vs some opponents), but I think this hand is more than good enough to steal with and play postflop with the initiative. I also like the sizing, steals should generally be a bit bigger from the Small Blind to compensate for the positional disadvantage.

On the flop I'm not completely opposed to just check/giving up. We've completely missed and this type of flop with two of a suit and A-high hits a fair bit of our opponent's likely defending range. We've got almost no backdoor equity. Having said that a lot of the time villain won't have an Ax hand and will find it difficult to continue if we put him under pressure. So I think either play on the flop has its merits.

I think calling the turn is fine, like awmm says, we're not getting the pot odds however our implied odds are reasonable. Furthermore if villain was just floating with random KJ or 7x or something, then we might have as many as 14 outs and against this very passive villain (AF less than 1), we may well get to realise this equity on the river.

I think villain's range is pretty weak, so I don't think he's ever going to call a river shove, so I'd check/jam and hope he has a go at bluffing us off the pot or tries to make a thin value bet.
 

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