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When does 3x become unprofitable in tournament play?

When does 3x become unprofitable in tournament play? - Wed May 07, 2014, 04:54 AM
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Ok so i've done the lessons and 3x seems to be the standard raise. But after comments on my own posts and comments on others posts i'm now unsure.

In tournament structures is there a point where 3x becomes unprofitable, and if so what would i reduce it to? is it about blind level's or stack sizes or both?

Also sometimes, especially in cash games my ep raise with strong hands gets multiple callers all of the time. if i find myself on a table like this should i increase my "standard" raise, or is it player specific? or should i jst play as normal but widen my ranging?
Wed May 07, 2014, 06:04 AM
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
x3 is fine early
x2.5 is fine later
x2.1 is fine later still

The reason we change this as we go along is that we want to get the strongest value from our raises whilst giving opponents the feasible chance to call and narrow down the number of callers.

We want less callers because unless we flop a monster, our hand will typically only play well vs less opponents. It avoids bloating the pot so we don't get overcommited and we can narrow down our opponents hand ranges somewhat as well (less useful early levels).

x2 early levels will get far too many people in the pot
x3 late levels will only get us being called (or raised) by monsters

You will find exceptions to these situations but this is typical to what you will find

The general thinking is that your bet sizing should stop x3 once the stacks get shallowed, around the 25/50 or 50/100 mark, switching to 2.5x

Then once antes kick in, 2.1x is much better.

I personally do 3.1/2.6/2.1 and find it works well but use the same levels as suggested above.

You can go more advanced still and alter your raise sizing based on your position but that could confuse you (i know it does me!)

A good rule of thumb if you arent sure of bet sizing is to keep your preflop bets at the same size (adjusting to tier of course) no matter position or hand strength.

No point in raising QQ-AA with x3 but your regular hands x2 because its an obvious tell and people will avoid.

Last edited by baud2death; Wed May 07, 2014 at 06:07 AM..
Wed May 07, 2014, 07:23 AM
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
You want to open for as little as you can get away with. Is your strategy long or small ball?
Small ball is better for slower , bigger games . Long ball on turbo's is maybe more effective because small ball need skill and skill needs time. That's why the WSOP main event is so long .

In general open as standard but as the blinds rise , just minraise from LP and attack those blinds.
Wed May 07, 2014, 12:56 PM
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Typically my play is the same for all formats. So Hyper Stt's that i play atm are 3x throughout and so is the turbo mtt's and my cash game. I was just wondering if i'm potentially reducing my stack building potential but say continuing my 3x line when blinds are at say 1k/2k 200 ante and avg stacks are about 20-40 bb's.

Looks like question answered i tnk so thanks. will see how that works in nxt tourney's .

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