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This made me sick

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This made me sick - Sat May 10, 2014, 03:26 AM
(#1)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186


Ok this made me sick but was my reasoning sound.

I'm in the bb and mp min raises. I've got J7 suited so decide to defend my bb.
I flop 2 pair and since i called preflop i figure i should check and let him lead. He bets out the same as preflop so i decide to check raise to 1500. He shoves and given the board i ranged him on AA KK AK possibly QQ or JJ but figure i was right to get it in.
The runner runner was sick as hell but it happens.
So was i right in my thinking or was i flawed?

P.S. I think it prudent to add the circumstances of this hand.

It's a PSO premier league game. I have a habit of going out early. with 245 entrants there 140 left. The scoring calculator had me losing 9-10 points if i went out now (which i did) Should this have played into the way i played this hand?

Last edited by thephoenix11; Sat May 10, 2014 at 03:49 AM.. Reason: Circumstances
 
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Sat May 10, 2014, 05:56 AM
(#2)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
Preflop = F-O-L-D!! - I don't care if this guy has sushi written across his forhead, FOLD IT!
Flop = Two pair is beautiful here, I don't like checking here as you lose value and are only doing this if you are SURE your opponent will lead out. After you check and he bets, you can flat him or raise, it is a check-raise so it looks VERY fishy and if I am your opponent I may not give you action unless I can beat what that represents which is two pair or a set. A call is much stronger here as you can check-raise on the turn and be confident your opponent would be priced in to make the call with a much weaker holding.

Bottom line, on the flop you are giving him the choice of getting involved if he has a monster, on the turn you both have contributed more to the pot and are more likely to get your opponent to call your bets with a weaker holding (like a pair or overpair) because he will be priced in and will deem you as being weak.

I think it was good to go to war here with your stack-size as it was, the strength of your hand but I think that either you should have led the flop or check-called the flop and raised the turn.
 
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Sat May 10, 2014, 09:32 AM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
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League games are about one thing and one thing only... getting points for the end of the month leaderboards.

To do so, I cannot take chances due to the point penalty that busting earlier will result in. The chips that I could win by taking a chance is not worth the points that I'll lose on the leaderboard.

Due to this, I cannot play any marginal hands.

Anything marginal is an instant muck preflop.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun May 11, 2014, 02:49 AM
(#4)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by baud2death View Post
Preflop = F-O-L-D!! - I don't care if this guy has sushi written across his forhead, FOLD IT!
Really? Should i not be defending my blinds with these kinds of cards agains't what is in most sitations a limp blind steal attempt? I know J7s ain't the bees knees of cards but to me at the time v's the small raise seemed the perfect hand to defend with.
I suppose one thing that has me interested is what the long term is of the hand from the flop. Cards known. Pot known. Over x amount of hands who wins. I think it's called sklansky dollars or something.
That situation again i think i'm happy.
 
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Sun May 11, 2014, 02:50 AM
(#5)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Thinking strictly in tournament play i have to agree. I should have folded pre-flop as the cost of going out was not covered by my thought that long term i'm a winner with the hand.

Suppose sometimes you gotta fold to win.
 
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Sun May 11, 2014, 08:37 AM
(#6)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thephoenix11 View Post
Really? Should i not be defending my blinds with these kinds of cards agains't what is in most sitations a limp blind steal attempt? I know J7s ain't the bees knees of cards but to me at the time v's the small raise seemed the perfect hand to defend with.
I suppose one thing that has me interested is what the long term is of the hand from the flop. Cards known. Pot known. Over x amount of hands who wins. I think it's called sklansky dollars or something.
That situation again i think i'm happy.
Lets talk about defending blinds for a second then.
First, where is the raise coming from? - if it is coming from CO/BTN (or SB if you are BB) then it is a steal attempt. If it is coming from earlier on, whilst it still could be a steal attempt, for the moment just assume it isn't as it will help your game right now.

So, only concerning yourself with late position.
If you believe your opponent is stealing with ATC (he has either shown he does this or is stealing too often in LP to be holding decent hands every time) then you can re-raise him x2 with anything and he should fold.
If you believe your opponent is stealing with decent enough cards like low pairs, broadway, Ax then again your play is to raise him, not call him but you typically want to be doing so with something that can play well post-flop, since he is a lot more likely to call you rather than fold.
If you believe your opponent is stealing with better than this, well actually this wouldn't be stealing it would be raising for value and you should just fold unless you too have a premium hand.

The most important thing in the above is that you should NOT be calling a steal. You will be out of position (unless it is the SB) for the remainder of the hand and what do you do if they bet and you have nothing, likely you will fold and have given up more to the thief.

Defending your blind is about raising not calling, you should only ever call a raise where you will be OOP if your hand was strong enough to raise but you chose to flat to trap your opponent.

Calling steals is a lot like limping, it shows weakness and is just a bit spewy

Just fold, after all why would you ever want to play a marginal hand out of position without the aggresive lead?
 
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Sun May 11, 2014, 09:18 AM
(#7)
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
Look for targets with high fold to 3 bet stat. If bb is loose, don't resteal from sb. Look for preflop pots worth 15% of your stack. Choose sc's and pp's. Do not use ace rag. Dominated !
Do not attempt this under 25 bb.
 
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Sun May 11, 2014, 09:20 AM
(#8)
awmm83's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by baud2death View Post
Lets talk about defending blinds for a second then.
First, where is the raise coming from? - if it is coming from CO/BTN (or SB if you are BB) then it is a steal attempt. If it is coming from earlier on, whilst it still could be a steal attempt, for the moment just assume it isn't as it will help your game right now.

So, only concerning yourself with late position.
If you believe your opponent is stealing with ATC (he has either shown he does this or is stealing too often in LP to be holding decent hands every time) then you can re-raise him x2 with anything and he should fold.
If you believe your opponent is stealing with decent enough cards like low pairs, broadway, Ax then again your play is to raise him, not call him but you typically want to be doing so with something that can play well post-flop, since he is a lot more likely to call you rather than fold.
If you believe your opponent is stealing with better than this, well actually this wouldn't be stealing it would be raising for value and you should just fold unless you too have a premium hand.

The most important thing in the above is that you should NOT be calling a steal. You will be out of position (unless it is the SB) for the remainder of the hand and what do you do if they bet and you have nothing, likely you will fold and have given up more to the thief.

Defending your blind is about raising not calling, you should only ever call a raise where you will be OOP if your hand was strong enough to raise but you chose to flat to trap your opponent.

Calling steals is a lot like limping, it shows weakness and is just a bit spewy

Just fold, after all why would you ever want to play a marginal hand out of position without the aggresive lead?
This is very true.
You really should only call if the odds allow. Or they're uber aggressive. Raise or fold is usually the best option. If you get reraised at least you know you're in trouble.


Sent from my HTC Rhyme S510b using Tapatalk 2
 
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Sun May 11, 2014, 02:59 PM
(#9)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Ok guys thank you. So calling in the view that it was a steal attempt and i had a decent defending hand was a bad thing to do. Will note that for future. Need to become a lil more aggressive and suppose i need to get that hud as quick as poss.
 
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Sun May 11, 2014, 04:44 PM
(#10)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by thephoenix11 View Post
Ok guys thank you. So calling in the view that it was a steal attempt and i had a decent defending hand was a bad thing to do. Will note that for future. Need to become a lil more aggressive and suppose i need to get that hud as quick as poss.
I suggest you change your definition of "decent defending hand" immediately.
 
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Thu May 15, 2014, 07:12 PM
(#11)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
I suggest you change your definition of "decent defending hand" immediately.
Always straight to the point joe

Will Do.
 

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