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25NL ZOOM, KK second nuts OTR facing shove

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25NL ZOOM, KK second nuts OTR facing shove - Mon May 19, 2014, 01:58 AM
(#1)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
This guy almost makes it possible to fold...

UTG: 23/17/1.4 - 1.8k hands
F3B: 20 4B Range: 4

Flop vs CB OOP
Call CB: 38
Raise CB: 14
Fold to CB: 48


 
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Mon May 19, 2014, 06:49 AM
(#2)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
Practice answer: Because his calling range is so wide (F3B:20) and aggression factor 1.4? or 3B, anyways both would be weird there, fish like. And you have second nuts, I think you need to call.

His range imo is very hard to get right. If he is a fish caller, then hands like {ATcc,AKcc,QQcc,AAcx,9Tcx,TcTx} might make sense with bluff 88. But ther can be so many AXcc hands in his range.

I do like the stat WSD =) If its over 60 here folding is not bad.

Last edited by braveslice; Mon May 19, 2014 at 07:09 AM..
 
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Mon May 19, 2014, 01:35 PM
(#3)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
@braveslice WSF: 26 WonSD%: 49
 
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Mon May 19, 2014, 02:24 PM
(#4)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
fold to 3bet oop? Have you any relevant notes from your hands on this guy?

Given the action post flop I wouldn't be surprised if he had Aces w/ace of clubs here.

Even though he folds to 3bet so little he should be much tighter in this particular spot. If he 4bet pre it would look ridiculously strong so he might decide to flat and raise any flop.

Gross spot dirt. If you've seen the guy c/raise overpairs in 3bet pots maybe he has queens with the queen of clubs. Doubt he's betting a set here, can't get called by worse. You have a lot of pairs and clubs ott.

don't know if we can fold, so close to top of our range.
 
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Mon May 19, 2014, 02:50 PM
(#5)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I'm calling, but god knows its probably the wrong move.
 
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Mon May 19, 2014, 04:38 PM
(#6)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
What is everyone doing in villains shoes here with a set on the river with a pot sized bet left?

Im kind thinking a x/f is in order but i seem to always be looking to fold big hands for some reason so i dont no if i like it or not but lets say it is correct to x/f the river with a set in the villains shoes if he is not capable of folding his set he might as well jam if your going to fold the Kc or less obviously he wont know that but still if he cant fold he might as well move all in and hope you fold.
 
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Tue May 20, 2014, 01:48 AM
(#7)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
I'd c/fold Mike.

Hero has no bluffs in his range. So he'll check back all worse (as they will have strong showdown value given the line), and only bet hands that beat us.
 
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Tue May 20, 2014, 10:47 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Hi dirt,

I would call personally. Here's the thing... there's only 1 card that beats us, and the line he's taken in this hand makes it unlikely imo that he holds that 1 card. How does the Ac get to the river like this? AA would usually 4b pre. ATo doesn't check-raise the flop. AcTc is the most reasonable way he can have us, maybe AcQc semi-bluffing the flop, but beyond that I think we see enough TT, JJ, QQ to make a call profitable here.


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Thu May 22, 2014, 09:25 AM
(#9)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Dave what do you do with TT no club on the river as the villain here?
 
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Thu May 22, 2014, 02:47 PM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Dave what do you do with TT no club on the river as the villain here?
I would never get to the river like this with TT as the villain.


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Thu May 22, 2014, 04:49 PM
(#11)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I would never get to the river like this with TT as the villain.
Is that because your flop raise would be big enough to ship turn? What if were 200bb deep, yh like i said before i like the check fold if i got to the river but ive noticed i like to look for spots to check fold big hands and look for spots to hero call weaker hands.

Obviously i want a good reason to do either but i have the feeling i might just be folding to much.
 
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Thu May 22, 2014, 05:14 PM
(#12)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Check/fold.


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Thu May 22, 2014, 05:18 PM
(#13)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Check/fold.
Cool, thanks Dave..
 
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Thu May 22, 2014, 05:28 PM
(#14)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
mike if you're on twitter or subscribed to tyler frosts youtube, check his most recent hotw.

Really good example of a spot where it's possible to bluff the river with a strong hand, because it will lose at showdown but villain has to fold almost his whole range.

Similar spot to this except multiway and we'll pretend instead of KKc hero has a set of eights.

We still have to c/fold, but the player with the eights might read your range perfectly and bet the river. These players wouldn't show up at 25nl or under i'd say!
 

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