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50NL - Wed May 21, 2014, 01:45 AM
(#1)
rudar47's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 73
His line contains all the bluffs but also all the value hand, question when to fold?


UTG: $68.78 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 11.90, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 43)
UTG+1: $65.98 (VPIP: 17.46, PFR: 9.52, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 63)
MP: $20.80 (VPIP: 48.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
Hero (CO): $46.50
BTN: $45.00 (VPIP: 14.96, PFR: 8.66, 3Bet Preflop: 3.92, Hands: 128)
SB: $50.00 (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
BB: $92.43 (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 12.80, 3Bet Preflop: 4.88, Hands: 126)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 9:heart: 9:club:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.25, fold, fold, BB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $3.25

Flop: ($9.25, 2 players) 4:diamond: 2:spade: 3:club:
BB bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50

Turn: ($20.25, 2 players) T:heart:
BB bets $10.50, Hero calls $10.50

River: ($41.25, 2 players) J:diamond:
BB bets $29.54, Hero calls $26.00 and is all-in

Last edited by rudar47; Wed May 21, 2014 at 02:32 AM..
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 05:27 AM
(#2)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I don't know too much about full ring, but villain's stats seem a bit on the tighter side? I don't know if you've got enough hands on villain yet to be able to give you meaningful CBet numbers but they'd be nice to know.

We also have all value hands in our range, so this gives some extra strength to villain's triple barrel. I'd have called flop and turn and folded river. You'd need to be up against someone who's capable of triple-barrel bluffing to call three times, and this guy doesn't seem like the right type to me.
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 05:44 AM
(#3)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
It's such a good board to triple though.
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 08:43 AM
(#4)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
ill fold on turn - when opponent 3bets preflop and double barrel - I expect him to shove all in on river

so if I'm not willing to call an all in on the river I'll just fold on turn to save money but if opponent

is full of trash calling with the intention of calling river is the right play but spand is right his

3bet percentage is not that loose
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 09:35 AM
(#5)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I agree with birdayy that this is a great board to triple barrel on and if I knew that villain was capable of making that triple barrel (which I assume a lot of regs at 50nl+ are), then calling 3 barrels seems reasonable.

Marvin I think folding the turn is a bit too nitty and is certainly exploitable. If we just call once in this type of spot, villains are likely to pick up on our tendency to have a low fold to flop CBet and a high fold to turn CBet and exploit of by doing a lot of double-barreling.
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 02:10 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Hi rudar,

I'm not sure how profitable this preflop call is tbh without post flop reads or a clear plan on how we are going to profit for this large 3b sizing of 3.6x our bet size. He's not a terribly aggressive 3-bettor from what you've seen so far, and he's probably not a great candidate to just hand over his stack ever time we flop a 9.

As played, I don't care to call down for stacks and would prefer to just fold the turn maybe, the river for sure. It's a nice run out to barrel but I don't think we should assume just because it is, any random villain will automatically 3-ball us with air. Especially when most of his "air" has some marginal showdown value too, like AK, AQ. With a more definitive read on turn/river frequencies and bluffing tendancies, ok. If we knew he was an aggressive barreler, ok. So many players on the tighter side are checking AK/AQ on either the turn or river though, without the read I lean towards yielding.

Quote:
If we just call once in this type of spot, villains are likely to pick up on our tendency to have a low fold to flop CBet and a high fold to turn CBet and exploit of by doing a lot of double-barreling.
Agree, if we are making this our routine line. Villain doesn't have enough data on us yet to even have such a read though, even if it is our routine line (hopefully it's not, for me it would be case specific here), I think we can make an exploitable play still and not be too worried about being exploited yet.

EDIT: one other thing, which may be subtle, but none the less... villain may view us as a rec player since we don't auto-top up our stack, and assume he is getting called down more frequently, and thus 3-barrel bluff less frequently than normal as well. Small factor, no way to know if he's even considering this, but given the limited info it's another small nudge towards giving up here.


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Last edited by TheLangolier; Wed May 21, 2014 at 02:14 PM..
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 07:44 PM
(#7)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
EDIT: one other thing, which may be subtle, but none the less... villain may view us as a rec player since we don't auto-top up our stack, and assume he is getting called down more frequently, and thus 3-barrel bluff less frequently than normal as well. Small factor, no way to know if he's even considering this, but given the limited info it's another small nudge towards giving up here.
Great point, I actually missed this when first looking through the hand. I know I insta-tag anyone who doesn't top-up as a fish until I see otherwise.
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 09:27 PM
(#8)
rudar47's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 73
RE buy is set up at 90bb or less, but i never said that i am not a fish, that is why i am here to learn and get better.
About opponent: once he did 3bet form bb with AJ and after 3 barrel with air.
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 11:12 PM
(#9)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I must be a HUGE fish cause I NEVER top off
I was playing PLO100 tonight and my stack got dropped to $19.52 after a bad beat and I ended up bringing it back to $234 to then close that table.
I believe that fighting your way back helps you be more patient and pay attention to the hands you're playing

Been doing that for the past 2 years and you all know my success, I guess to each their own and what ever works for you, keep on doing it

GL
 
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Wed May 21, 2014, 11:55 PM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
I must be a HUGE fish cause I NEVER top off
I was playing PLO100 tonight and my stack got dropped to $19.52 after a bad beat and I ended up bringing it back to $234 to then close that table.
I believe that fighting your way back helps you be more patient and pay attention to the hands you're playing

Been doing that for the past 2 years and you all know my success, I guess to each their own and what ever works for you, keep on doing it

GL
I said villain may view us as a recreational player. I didn't say not auto-topping up automatically makes you a fish. It doesn't. But, the fact remains most recreational players don't auto top up which is why most regs assume an unknown who's not, may be a weaker player. I'm sure you recognize that Trap.

There was a period of time where I set my auto top up to do it when I fell below 80bb, just so that if I paid blinds or what not and wasn't topped up, unknowns to me would suspect I was a fish.

As for playing on <20 bb's and grinding it back up, to each is own I guess I think you are certainly giving up some edge while working it back up. If you got there by lack of patience and it helps you refocus and settle down, then it's very likely worth it, but I suspect that you usually get there in a big confrontation, not spewing and lack of patience.


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Thu May 22, 2014, 12:05 AM
(#11)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I agree with you Dave, was pulling your leg
When I see a small stack, I do assume he's a fish unless I've seen him often and have notes on him

As for the <20BB, I usually get there because of a bad play, greed, tilt or just a bad beat so I need to get my focus back and apply ABC. Yea I might lose on value, but I really need to re-focus and value will com with time...... I'm in no rush....lol

 
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Thu May 22, 2014, 03:10 PM
(#12)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
As for the <20BB, I usually get there because of a bad play, greed, tilt or just a bad beat so I need to get my focus back and apply ABC. Yea I might lose on value, but I really need to re-focus and value will com with time...... I'm in no rush....lol
That makes good sense to me. If you are unfocused, tilting, etc, you are almost certainly giving value, not getting it, playing deeper stacked. Any routine that helps refocus is +EV then.


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