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Would you really fold here?

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Would you really fold here? - Sat May 24, 2014, 03:04 AM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
It's Big $3.30, 10 mins blind level regular structure game.

I am playing online from last few days generally when people 3-bet idiotic amount they show up with AA - 80% and KK - 20%. But we can't say everyone who is min 3-betting is doing with AA or KK.

I think I also should have 2.5x preflop and I don't think I can fold for 1:8 price preflop to his baby 3-bet.

His C-bet size also was saying he had a monster hand maybe I can be wrong.

How bad is this fold on the flop on a scale of 10 (10/10 being ultra stupid fold).





STATS :

Last edited by adikumar2010; Sat May 24, 2014 at 04:08 AM..
 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 07:10 AM
(#2)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Adiku,
At the moment the hand showing in replayer is an unfortunate flush over flush hand that plays itself and ought not need advice, not the hand you meant to post.
 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 07:45 AM
(#3)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Thanks Profess, my bad I posted wrong hand for some reason I can't edit the post. So I am posting correct hand here:

 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 10:29 AM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
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Hi adikumar2010!

With KJs from UTG+2, I'm going to just let this one go preflop the overwhelming majority of the time, especially with the BB player here. Granted it's a very small number of hands, they have a 40% 3-bet (probably 2 of 5), so I'm expecting to get 3-bet here and my hand is nowhere near strong enough to call a 3-bet with OOP. If I did open the hand, I'm using a standard 2.5BB+1BB for each limper raise.

I now get min 3-bet, not by the BB, but by a loose/passive that in the very small number of hands that I have on them has never 3-bet preflop. Even with this being a min-raise, I'm mucking. When passive players raise, they normally have a very strong hand and I can be easily dominated by a larger K or pair.

If I saw the flop (which I would not), when I hit top pair, I absolutely cannot check here. I need to make a standard 1/2 pot value bet. If the opp does have a monster (big pair or better king) and comes over the top, then I have an easy fold. If they have a mid pair, then they'll muck and I can take down the pot here.
I cannot check here, because then, when the opp bets, I have no clue whether I'm ahead and should raise or if I'm behind and should fold.
His c-bet size does NOT scream monster... a small bet like that is normally a tell for a draw (probably diamonds) or a marginally made hand (TT, JJ or QQ).

As played, I'm calling the flop bet (I'm ahead of the majority of the opp's range) and my plan is to lead the turn to any non A nor diamond, but I'd never be in this spot because I should muck preflop and if I did see the flop, I'm making a standard value bet as a lead bet.

When playing poker, I want to make standard plays and to put the pressure on the opponent so that they are faced with the tough decisions... not to play passively and to be the one facing the tough decisions myself.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 10:40 AM
(#5)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
So I should be making a donk bet into him on the flop once I called his preflop baby 3-bet is that what you mean?

Or other thing I could do is check-call flop and then donk out on non Ace turn into him?

* I thought betting for information such as to know where you are at is a bad play.
 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 10:44 AM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
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Basically, if I call the 3-bet, I need to lead ANY flop (whether I hit it or not)... otherwise, the call is a huge leak.

I do NOT want to check/call... this is another big leak.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 11:06 AM
(#7)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Thank you Mr.John main mistake was to call this little enticing 3-bet to lure me in, that created all the problem. Once I called his 3-bet I made up my mind that I will only continue if I flop 2 pair, trips, flush or straight. Coz as we can see he could have AK KK AA the way he played it.
 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 11:10 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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My flop bet here is not a 'bet for information'. It's a value bet for my top pair.

John (JWK24)


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Sat May 24, 2014, 01:23 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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Hi adikumar2010!

I've been thinking about this one and there is another line that might be a better play.

If I did call the 3-bet preflop, then I could check/call the flop (as long as it's not a very large bet). However, if I take this line, then I will also need to check/call the turn and also the river (unless the opp makes a large bet).

If I do check/call the flop and the turn goes check/check... then I also have the option to make a thin value bet on the river if it's a non-threatening card (I normally use around 1/3 pot for these bets).

As with most hands, there's more than one way to play them.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat May 24, 2014, 01:31 PM
(#10)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
But if we put him on AK KK AA, then calling even one street is splashing of valuable tournament chips. When I called 3-bet I thought I will not continue unless I flop 2 pair, trips, flush or straight.

You said he can make small flop bet with weak hands like flush draws QQ JJ KQ but he is loose passive I don't think he is capable of making a baby 3-bet with JJ TT QQ KQ and is capable of taking a fishy unusual line as we know JJ QQ try to protect there hand preflop by 3-betting bigger preflop.

Main mistake is still the preflop call I think.
 

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