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Correct to fold?

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Correct to fold? - Tue May 27, 2014, 09:39 AM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I am not sure only thing he can 3-bet there is if he has flush draw, rest I think his all 3-betting range is beating me.

Is it correct fold or should I shove there, coz I think if he had flush draw he wouldn't be raising to that size moreover he would be shoving himself or just calling.

Rest you can tell me if I should have flatted flop tiny c-bet and let the danger cards come of in multi-way pot or not.

Could be fine fold as he is less likely to be messing multi-way. He can have 33, 44, AJ. The only hand I beat are JQ JT, which could make that 3-bet to avoid people drawing for flush incase he is not on semi-bluffing with a flush draw. But again his 3-bet doesn't look like he is scared of me calling, possible he himself has flush draw but at these stakes I don't remember when someone 3-bet to a good amount to rep a good hand and not shove or call with a flush draw.


Full Tilt Poker Game #34267668264: MTOPS Event #37 (Day 1c) (266270219), Table 20 - NL Hold'em - 25/50 - 18:50:49 IST - 2014/05/27 [09:20:49 ET - 2014/05/27]
Seat 1: iCouldntCareLes (15,811)
Seat 2: MeHash (7,420)
Seat 3: matternm (8,205)
Seat 4: adikumar2010 (3,610)
Seat 5: royalbecks (7,905)
Seat 6: dajesh (8,533)
Seat 7: Pokermon73 (8,092)
Seat 8: lastpub (7,685)
Seat 9: Dr_Morais (7,500)
dajesh posts the small blind of 25
Pokermon73 posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to adikumar2010 [Js Ks]
lastpub folds
Dr_Morais folds
iCouldntCareLes raises to 100
MeHash folds
matternm folds
adikumar2010 calls 100
royalbecks calls 100
dajesh has 15 seconds left to act
dajesh folds
Pokermon73 calls 50
*** FLOP *** [Jd 3d 4h] (Total Pot: 425, 4 Players)
Pokermon73 checks
iCouldntCareLes bets 100
adikumar2010 raises to 500
royalbecks raises to 1,350
Pokermon73 folds
iCouldntCareLes folds
adikumar2010 has 15 seconds left to act
adikumar2010 has requested TIME
adikumar2010 folds
Uncalled bet of 850 returned to royalbecks
royalbecks mucks
royalbecks wins the pot (1,525)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,525 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd 3d 4h]
Seat 1: iCouldntCareLes folded on the Flop
Seat 2: MeHash didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: matternm didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: adikumar2010 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: royalbecks (button) collected (1,525), mucked
Seat 6: dajesh (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Pokermon73 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: lastpub didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Dr_Morais didn't bet (folded)


STATS :

Last edited by adikumar2010; Tue May 27, 2014 at 12:24 PM..
 
Old
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Wed May 28, 2014, 05:03 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi Adi,

Preflop call is fine. On the flop I like to call the initial bet, or if I raise make it significantly smaller, like 250 to go. The problem is our current hand strength really doesn't warrant playing a big pot, and with no back door draws we have little chance to improve, so making this huge raise is counter-productive. We are going to struggle to get action from low equity hands with this action... only a fish with QJ/JT really qualify. AJ/QQ+/sets/high equity draws are the hands we're courting now and that's not good. As played, definitely fold to the reraise.

To save us a follow up post:

Yes, if we flat and get multi-way action and/or bad cards come off, we are allowed to just fold. It's not the end of the world (and remember, the goal isn't to win every single pot we play). We will still have plenty of depth of money to move forward with when things go sideways.

imo with this hand strength on this depth of money, it's better to lose a small amount because we have to yield on a bad run out, should that occur, than to lose a huge amount because we overplay our hand and put ourselves in a bad equity situation for a large pot.


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Old
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Wed May 28, 2014, 06:03 PM
(#3)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
You are saying I should have made it to 250 after he bet 100. Man I don't understand on one side JWK says bet more like 3/4 of the pot multi-way to give poor pot-odds for flush draw and straight draws to chase or else I am doomed to loose all my chips coz I gave them good pot-odds to out draw me and on the other side you are saying I should have raised only 150 over his 100 baby bet, which will give flush draw super good price to chase with 250 to go 4-way insanity.

Now today I bet 500 into 535 and you are saying it's bad.

If I make it 250 on the flop, pot size will be 775. The original baby better will have to call only 150 and other players need to call just 250 into a pot of 775. With 88 77 JQ JT 56 flush draw and god knows what.

PS: It's 4 way pot with 4 fishes , I got other point that we should be 10/10 times not aiming to take this one down on the flop, as it's multi-way and fishes would never give up on there flush draws no matter what you do , so it's best to keep the pot small rather then bloating it with top pair and then seeing two players cold-calling my raise with flush draws, JT, 88, 99, TT, 56, etc. Then by the time river hits I will have no way to fold the hand with 1/3 bet left in my stack even if they sucked out one me somehow.

I know it's multi-way but I was not willing to give them the pot as I had best hand on the flop that's what I thought, and then get drawn out coz I gave them supergood price to draw out on me as JWK says, that's it's always my fault that I bet small and then they draw out on me.

** Don't count on me to atleast not post one follow up question to your message **

(Ignore the smiles, it's for my own satisfaction )

Last edited by adikumar2010; Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:20 PM..
 
Old
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Wed May 28, 2014, 06:08 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I agree with Dave on calling the flop bet. If I did raise, I'd want to raise enough to price out the draws, but with only top pair and not even top kicker, IMO, it's not strong enough to raise with.

John (JWK24)


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Old
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Wed May 28, 2014, 06:19 PM
(#5)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I don't think that weak to not raise to 400-500 chips over his 100 min bet. Only AJ, 33, 44 beats me. Rest will be hands worst then us like JQ JT TT 99 88 56 67 and 8-12 combos of flush draws.

Last edited by adikumar2010; Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:31 PM..
 
Old
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Thu May 29, 2014, 11:17 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
I don't think that weak to not raise to 400-500 chips over his 100 min bet. Only AJ, 33, 44 beats me.
And QQ+ beats you. And Ad2d/Ad4d/Ad5d/5d6d (all are equity favorites with 2 cards to come, AND hands that might reraise as a semibluff which you are folding to).

Weak? Well, do you think your hand is strong for a multi-way pot? I don't think so.

Quote:
Rest will be hands worst then us like JQ JT TT 99 88 56 67 and 8-12 combos of flush draws.
Perfect. A big raise will get action from the flush draw combos (which all have reasonable equity, some of which are even favorite), and from all the super high equity hands (AJ, QQ+, sets). A big raise also folds out 66-TT (very low equity hands), making our already marginal hand strength significantly weaker relative to their continuing range.

That's why I recommend a call. To be clear, I did not recommend a small raise like you said in your reply... I meant it would have been better imo than a big raise, because of all of the above... sorry for any confusion. But no, I would call and proceed in a manner not particularly attached to this hand should a big pot or bad run out ensue.


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