Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Tournament Section (MTTs & STTs) /

$27 Saturday Eliminator early stages HIT SET

Old
Default
$27 Saturday Eliminator early stages HIT SET - Sun Jun 01, 2014, 08:05 AM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...058_111CFA6CF1

i think pre flop and post flop is standard

my question is - Is is all right to call pot size turn bet then fold to all in river bet in position

my theory during that time

the board is super wet and he might be doing this with Kcx or SD and I still have outs to improve to FH

and he might just check the river if he is drawing

and if i fold to river bet all in im still 40+bb deep

***ty for the analysis and opponent is kind enough to show his hand so I know if my fold is good or not

Last edited by marvinsytan; Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:43 AM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Jun 01, 2014, 08:26 AM
(#2)
666bonez187's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 745
tough spot, i think the major decision is on the turn, as you would expect this villain to blast all rivers, so you are burning chips if you are going to fold river to any bet.... i think the villain expects a player to have a strong ace, so they have decided to pot, pot, ..... right or wrong i think you have to fold the turn... unless you have reads/history with the villain, if i flopped a small flush i would play the hand the same way villain did...
 
Old
Default
Sun Jun 01, 2014, 01:48 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi Marvin,

It's an interesting spot. Personally I don't think we should fold, although I could be swayed to change my mind with certain reads on the villain (not provided).

The thing is, many players that flop a flush check to the raiser on the flop here, not donk for a pot sized bet. I would expect this action to often mean a protection bet, or big draw (or a combo of both). So I'm talking hands like 33, A3/A4, AxKc if he's not an aggressive 3-bettor, AxJc, TcTx, etc. We can't even rule out a hand like 2c. Because we have taken a passive line and not raised at any point, there are some hands in this category that think they are good and he may be value shoving... aces up and 22/33 in particular. Sometimes we are beat, but I think we will be good often enough to make calling correct here, absent player specific reads.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Sun Jun 01, 2014, 05:14 PM
(#4)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I don't see how just calling the turn is considered standard.
I guess you can do that if you think villain is overly aggressive and spewing chips around with Ax, but if you think that, calling river seems like the obvious choice.
But versus a less aggro villain I would either fold turn or shove, depending mostly on how they have been playing previously.
Versus unknown I am calling river, I think they could have something like AJ-AQ-AK with a club which they decided to value-shove river.
But it's close, since small flushes would play exactly the same way.
 
Old
Default
Sun Jun 01, 2014, 06:01 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hey, couple things... first those hands I listed are just the hands I think the villain might reasonably shove for value, i.e. thinking he's got the best hand. We also can't rule out some silly shoves like A-x or bluffs like KcX.

Regarding the turn play, personally I think it depends a lot on the reads of the villain we weren't given. If the villain is an aggressive bluffer for instance, then I think calling and letting then bluff the river (which we will call) is best. Without reads either course of action seems ok to me on the turn, just not folding.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Mon Jun 02, 2014, 08:02 AM
(#6)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
thank you @666bonez187 @GamblingProp for the analysis really appreciate it

and especially to Coach Langolier

learned a lot in this hand

opponent hand is A5 for a straight - he was kind enough to show
 
Old
Default
Mon Jun 02, 2014, 10:43 AM
(#7)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
No-one's yet mention the flop play. I'd have thought that a raise is in order here? We're going to get value from A with flush draw, bare Kc, 33, maybe even a Ax that think we're flushing and isn't going to fold.

Or is raising flop just going to value-own ourselves when villain comes back over the top?
 
Old
Default
Mon Jun 02, 2014, 10:54 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Raising the flop is fine as well imo... again it's impossible to have a clear better course of action without any reads. But I don't mind raising the flop (and not folding to a reraise).

The sticky part of a flop raise, imo, comes when he flats the raise, a club turns, and he bombs it. We may get moved off our set and 10 out equity. By flatting the flop, we can call again if a 4th club comes and draw for the board pair generally, to realize our equity. The flip side of that coin is non-club hands that might give action now (Ax, 2 pair) will stop giving action on a 4th club.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 03, 2014, 02:24 AM
(#9)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
early stages in this kind of board I dont like to bloat the pot that I can't get away

opponent is already bet potting so I just call to see what is he going on the turn

I dont have a read on my opponent
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com