Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

Weird spot 10nl 6max Zoom

Old
Default
Weird spot 10nl 6max Zoom - Tue Jun 03, 2014, 04:06 PM
(#1)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
Villain in s.blind is a 1 tabler, 20/7 through 17 hands. No other really relevant stats.

What kind of range do we think we does this with? I'm struggling to think of hands I beat here, unless he somehow does this with a jack. He doesn't really have any qx floats on this board except for qj right?

Wondering how everyone would play this.





 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 03, 2014, 04:58 PM
(#2)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I would call!
 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 03, 2014, 05:15 PM
(#3)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I'm calling also

But I'm curious, why did you just call on the turn, why not raise?
You're kind of telling him, I don't got much, lets see another card

He could have AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, Jx or Qx
 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 03, 2014, 05:23 PM
(#4)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
I don't know the guy sand, he prob folds his jack x to a raise on the turn and I end up on the river against a stronger range.

I guess this particular villain has enough weird qx/jx hands to justify calling here?
 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 03, 2014, 09:29 PM
(#5)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
But I'm curious, why did you just call on the turn, why not raise?
He calls better and folds worse.

We also have a player behind with an uncapped range (he can have all sets on this board).
 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 03, 2014, 10:09 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
He calls better and folds worse.

We also have a player behind with an uncapped range (he can have all sets on this board).
Coming from a guy who keeps betting AK with a total missed board, I'd rather bluff with AA on the turn, to each their own I guess

Where does it say you MUST call better and fold worse on the turn?

How do you know he's got an uncapped range without any notes? Sure he can have a set just like he can have garbage

I personally raise the turn and call the river depending on the result of my raise on the turn
 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 03, 2014, 10:52 PM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
PG, I used to be a massive calling station, not just a little one like I am now


Anyways ... I used to have a hard time folding AA and would call, call all the way to the river, and usually the bb (with the 20/7 stats) would wind up flipping over 66 or 22? It kind of seemed like when the board got more wet on the turn, they'd be worried about getting oudrawn on the river? And then when the river bricked, they'd be worried a big bet might not get called, or something like that?

Guess the ideal thing would have been for the bb to re-raise at some point if they had a set ...


Hey everybody, if you were in the bb and had a set, would you re-raise the flop in case there's an overcard on the turn that makes people less likely to call a re-raise? Or would you wait for the turn hoping the board gets more wet, making people more likely to call a re-raise?
 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 04, 2014, 01:13 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Paddy,

I would call. Sure he can have Qx... he's a fish after all. There are also a number of draws he could have turned. He can show up with JhXh, and he could just have a jack and think he can't give AK a free card now. Bad players do things that make no sense all the time.

The turn call seems to be controversial. I don't mind the turn call at all, but also think in this spot a raise isn't bad, because:

1) I don't fully agree V2 will only continue with better and fold worse hands... fish don't like to fold top pair or draws, so if we make it like $4 to go I think he's calling a lot of this.

2) V1's range is uncapped but facing the bet and raise, I think we will get an honest reaction... if he 3-bets the turn we have a super easy fold. When we flat, there is some non-zero chance he could raise with a range that includes both sets, QJ, and some worse hands and draws... which leaves me less confident about my decision. I don't expect this to happen often if we flat, so it's not a major concern (getting value from V1 is the primary), but it's something I consider.

Quote:
How do you know he's got an uncapped range without any notes? Sure he can have a set just like he can have garbage
That's exactly what it means... he can have the strongest possible hands in this spot. He could reasonably flat call our UTG raise preflop with all the pocket pairs that make a set on this board, and reasonably call this flop texture with sets playing them slow (which he probably should do tbh in this situation). We don't need notes to know this. Of course his range will include a lot more non-set hands, but it's a good point that we can't forget about him because he's still in there and his range does include monsters.

Quote:
Hey everybody, if you were in the bb and had a set, would you re-raise the flop in case there's an overcard on the turn that makes people less likely to call a re-raise? Or would you wait for the turn hoping the board gets more wet, making people more likely to call a re-raise?
I might check-raise the flop after a cbet and call, or check/call and c/r the turn... and I think that's what most players would do... check/call, bet is not a common line at all for a flopped set in my experience.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 04, 2014, 11:01 AM
(#9)
shoim's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 180
Hey all,

Before reading other opinions my guess is : he thin value bets the turn (considering that the flop raises and calls gives him both odds to call and to, maybe, think, nobody has anything) and feels "obliged" to continue to river. I think that the turn is the key to this hand - should you decide to re-raise the turn it would be much easier to narrow his range.

Ok, now reading

Regards,
Shoim
 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 04, 2014, 10:49 PM
(#10)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I might check-raise the flop after a cbet and call, or check/call and c/r the turn... and I think that's what most players would do... check/call, bet is not a common line at all for a flopped set in my experience.

Yeah, this one's really close - guess it comes down to reads, and there weren't many here.

Guess I thought maybe this was like how you're often urging us to donk out in multi-way pots on semi-wet boards, since there's a chance the hand could get checked around, giving people a free card, which might allow them to outdraw the set? Except the villain might have waited until the turn because the flop was so dry?

But maybe the villain caught a Q and got excited too - making hands can be exciting lol

Tough one - Paddy posts really tricky spots!


That was kind of an interesting idea from Sandtrap to re-raise the donk bet - sounds like a lot of us like that idea ... guess it could help clarify things

Last edited by TrustySam; Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 11:08 PM..
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com