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Call or fold to 3 barrell?10nl zoom 6max

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Call or fold to 3 barrell?10nl zoom 6max - Wed Jun 04, 2014, 10:15 PM
(#1)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
Don't have any specific notes on villain. He is 3 tabling, 23/14 and has 3bet the button twice in 7 occasions from the small blind. Has a 5.5 aggro factor and hasn't missed a bet on any streets in my 67 hand sample. (2/2 flop in 3bet pots, no turn info).

It's a pretty small sample so I don't think I should read into it too much, should I call or fold the river? Pretty much smack dab at the top of my range.








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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 06:33 AM
(#2)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I disagree that you're at the top of your range, you have AK, TT, 55 even AT in your button calling range that would call down post-flop.

I think calling three times is pretty optimistic against a villain who's postflop tendencies aren't well defined. To make a profitable call he's either got to be firing three barrels as a bluff or value betting AJ or worse for three streets.

Sometimes when a villain takes a really strong line like he did here, you just have to believe that they've got the goods! I would call twice like you did and then fold river.
 
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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 01:53 PM
(#3)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
Thanks Spand that's how I played it.


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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 03:10 PM
(#4)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Personally, I would of played it differently

First, at these stakes, I'm betting 3x, not 2.5x

Calling his re-raise is ok
On the flop, he bets less than half pot, so I'm putting him on Ax, but more on flush or straight draw, so I'm raising to $2.10.
I think that the fact that you keep calling is bets, just seems that you're waiting for the flush draw or a straight draw
If he calls your raise, than I check fold to a bet on the turn

On the river, you have 2 pairs with a pretty good kicker
The fact that you kept calling and if I was Villain_2, I would think that you missed both the flush and the straight, I'm going to shove BLUFF

I think that with such a hand, with position, you need to be more aggressive
Nothing wrong in raising then folding


GL
 
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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 10:20 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Guess the larger 'big picture' benefit of this re-raise, and the other re-raise in Paddy's other hand (here: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...10nl-zoom-6max ... oh wait, wrong hand - this hand here -> http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...10nl-6max-Zoom), is that it:

1. Requires the villain to stop and think, and decide on a response
2. So we'd wind up with more reads - timing tells, more info on the strength of the villain's hand possibly, if they decide to check or shove

When we don't have initiative - that would seem like it might make decision-making easier, if we have more info?

And then maybe another benefit might be that sometimes better might fold?


On the other hand, probably a lot of people might be concerned that re-raising in this spot with TP2K might only get called by better and fold out worse?


It's an intriguing idea though - not sure I've admitted this yet Sandtrap, but the higher up I've gone in stakes, the more some of your ideas that used to seem a bit 'outside the box' have started to make a lot more sense Some cool stuff you post
 
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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 11:15 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Hey Sam,

I don't have the right answer, it's just the way I would play.
BUT, having gone from 10NL to 200NL, every stake plays differently. I'm sure that the way I play at the now stake probably wouldn't work at 2NL and so so at 10NL

That's why when going up in stakes, you need to take the time to adjust

GL
 
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Fri Jun 06, 2014, 07:59 AM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Maybe the higher the amount of 3-bet bluffing at the stake, the more likely it is a re-raise by AQ would be for value? There's not a ton yet at 10nl, but it seems like there's more at 25nl, so maybe this is an idea to tuck away for future consideration in certain spots

One other advantage to might be that a re-raise on the flop might also be confusing, since you didn't 4-bet pre-flop - like this is what a re-raise would look like from the sb's eyes with Ax ... what to do on the turn with like, AKo?

 
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Fri Jun 06, 2014, 08:36 AM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Maybe a re-raise would work well in this spot, if tighter players are actually more inclined to fold better (AK), and looser players are more inclined to call with worse (Ax) ... because they're confused by the re-raise?

Tucking away this idea for later
 
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Fri Jun 06, 2014, 01:03 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Maybe the higher the amount of 3-bet bluffing at the stake ...

Also, guess if 3-betting ranges are wider, then peoples' calling ranges would tend to be wider too?

Or maybe this might work as an alternative to a light 4-bet, versus people with really high 3-bet rates, who might feel more pot-committed post-flop?


Lots of ideas to experiment with at a much later date

Thanks for the help Sandtrap
 

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