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Just can't beat 5nl!

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Just can't beat 5nl! - Thu Jun 05, 2014, 01:01 PM
(#1)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

I just can't do it






Cheers,

Matt
 
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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 01:56 PM
(#2)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Have you looked at how your playing in big pots where you lost or decided to bluff? What about looking at 3b pots removing your value range in the hole cards section and see if your spewing money 3betting light.

Maybe your cbetting to much or barreling to much i would find some hands and post them up.
 
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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 02:50 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
I'm not sure what we're looking at here.... the graph looks positive, and the win rate about +2bb/100 if I'm seeing it right... so while that's by no means crushing the stake or even assured you're a long term winning player at it given the sample size, saying you just can't beat it seems a bit harsh of a conclusion.

A good review of your play should help, have you done that yet? Are there any obvious areas you know you struggle in (like Mike said)? Start there. Use the stat tracking tool to look for spots you're losing money in at a fair clip, and start your focus shoring up any leaks in those areas, is what I'd recommend.


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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 03:22 PM
(#4)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

Cheers for taking the time to post. The win rate is about 2 bb/100.

Well I have reviewed my plays, but I just can't seem to find leaks (although there is bound to be some there). I
Guess I don't really know what I am looking for to be honest.

I have reviewed my hands and it tends to be a mix. Some bad play, unlucky hands, and the ones that I win.

For instance, one particular hand the other day I was holding AsKs in SB and I 3bet against an MP1 raise. MP1 calls my raise IP, on the flop I make the nut flush. I bet, he raises, we go all-in. He's holding 66. The turn brings a 6, the river brings a 10 pairing the board....so I lose.

I am going to have to do a good review like you said, and I will post here. I just don't know at the moment.

Cheers,

Matt
 
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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 05:15 PM
(#5)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,422
all good advice so far my suggestion would send a trainer 1 of your sessions for live training and it will help..it ceretainly worked for me!!!
 
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Thu Jun 05, 2014, 11:51 PM
(#6)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
Is this regular tables or zoom pullin?


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Fri Jun 06, 2014, 02:37 AM
(#7)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi paddy,

This is zoom poker full ring.

Cheers,

Matt
 
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Fri Jun 06, 2014, 03:45 AM
(#8)
Paddy Gar's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 439
full ring!? sorry can't give you any help.

I did play a bunch of hands at 5nl 6max zoom recently, abc is the only way to play there. Generally folding to raises from passive players and not running any expensive bluffs against stations!


Bracelet Winner

 
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Fri Jun 06, 2014, 04:24 AM
(#9)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
I can give you guys an insight to my game.

The only bluffing that I do is the cbet bluff, when the board hits my perceived range, and not villains, I look at their fold to a cbet stat and if it's like 70%, I cbet as it will be profitable to do so. If missed the board, villain calls my cbet I give up (pretty much fit or fold which I thought would be best at these stakes).

One thing that I have been doing recently is X/C (as the preflop raiser) and C villains cbet when I have second pair or Top pair weakish kicker (because I don't think I could be called by worse). For instance, MP1 raises and I call with TT on the BTN. Flop comes up Q52 rainbow. Villain continuation bets (I very rarely see villains not make a continuation) and I call. The turn brings a blank card, and villain barrels (I will give up), if villain checks (I sometimes bet hoping to take it down there and then, or I might check it down depending on the situation).

My general stats seem ok

like (rough figures): VPIP 13%ish PFR 10%ish cbet% 60%ish cbet success 48%ish 3bet 3.5%ish WTSD% 25%ish
$WSTD 55%ish W$WSF 40%ish Sb steal success 70%ish BTN steal success 60%ish CO steal success 55%ish

I will post some stats, and if anyone sees anything out of the ordinary then if you could flag that up that would be great.

Cheers,

Matt
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 07:39 AM
(#10)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
This is my first part of self analysis. If any of you guys notice anything in these graphs that could be leading to this sort of breakeven stretch, type, thing, that I am having (as shown in the graph above) then please comment.

Ok here goes...

Went to showdown graph (all positions)




Well here, I believe I am doing pretty well - it goes up!. As you can see by the last lot of hands, it is starting to even out. Recently I am been X/C flops with second pair, trying to see a cheap showdown. If I fold earlier, then the loss will contribute to my non-showdown redline.


Non-showdown graph (UTG to BTN)



This is where I believe it starts to get interesting. In particular, at around the 20,000 hand mark. Here we can see that I start to lose money and breakeven, I believe this is possibly the area whats causing my overall graph to look the way it does.

Non-showdown SB & BB



Here my winnings in SB & BB have pretty much stayed the same - the negative gradient from start to finish. Although there maybe areas in SB & BB (all areas for that matter) to help with this negative gradient, to me it would still appear from the graphs that I have posted above that the issues appear to lie in the non-showdown UTG - BTN seats.

Going forward would be to review hands that appear in these areas - non showdown in UTG to BTN.

If you guys see anything were untoward then please comment.

what's striking is the following:

Showdown winnings = blind loses

My profit appears to come from my non-showdown winnings seats UTG to BTN

Can any of you guys check your showdown, nonshowdown UTG to BTN, and nonshowdown blinds and see if you have the same.

That's all that I will write for now.

Cheers,

Matt

Last edited by pullin1988; Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 09:11 AM..
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 11:04 AM
(#11)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Mine is exactly the same my red line goes up if im the aggressor and so does my green line, when i cold call my red line is up and down making money just about and when i get to the river im making money with my green line as the pre flop caller as well.

My red line in the blinds is a steep fall which it should because you fold your blinds pre alot, as long as you are not losing more money in the blinds than you would if you had folded your fine im sure there's better spots to focus on.

Have a look at 3b pots and remove your value range.
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 11:29 AM
(#12)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
GL Pullin!
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 12:04 PM
(#13)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
remove your value range.
What is this?
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 12:07 PM
(#14)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hey crazYJohnnie,

Mike means looking at 3bet pots that doesn't include AA, KK, etc. I will do this and post here.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 12:14 PM
(#15)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
What is this?
The hands you 3b for value, it would be pretty pointless to see if your light 3b is profitable leaving AA in there wouldn't it.

I just remove AA KK QQ for some positions then il look at other positions and remove AK JJ TT AQ KQ, i sometimes 3b AJ as well but i don't bother removing it because i don't 3b it that much.

Then your see if your losing money with all your trash hands.
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 12:56 PM
(#16)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Oh now i get it you mean filtering hands in HEM/tracker, i thought it was some new game trend rofl.
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 01:56 PM
(#17)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi,

3bet pots - (QQ+, AK removal) positions UTG to BTN

well over 45,000 hands I have only 3bet (value range removal indicated above) 23 times - hardly a sample

Of these 23 hands I have made a profit of 82 cent, basically I am not 3betting light, so not much to really look at here.

3bet pots - (QQ+, AK removal) positions SB & BB

Again over the 45,000 hands I have 3bet 153 times - removal of value range as shown above. I am in profit $18.65 243.79 bb/100.

Called 3bets

I wondered if I might be spewing by calling 3bets. Well according to my stats, and although it is a small sample of 114 hands, I am in profit $8.06 or 141 bb/100.

This has mainly occured when I have had a pocket pair such as 88. I raise in MP3, villain on the BTN MinRaise 3bet. I call OOP, and when I hit my set, I take you to value town. Lesson, don't Minraise 3bet! The MinRaise 3bet is pricing me in to call, basically I don't have to invest that much more to see the flop, and flop that monster that I am looking for.

So the plot thickens.

Is there anything else that I could add Mike?

Cheers for your help guys.

Matt

Last edited by pullin1988; Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 02:08 PM..
 
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Sat Jun 07, 2014, 02:22 PM
(#18)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
No idea i don't really look at my database so i cant think of anything else. If your not spewing tons of money 3betting light then surely your losing value post flop. I mean stealing blinds and 3betting light isn't going to bump your win rate from 2bb to 5bb i don't think so maybe get someone to look at your hands played.

Other than that you could always look at 3b pots where you flatted a 3b or flatted a open with some speculative hands. Even if you are making money in these spots though maybe you could be making more money in those spots than you all ready are but unfortunately i have no idea.
 
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Sun Jun 08, 2014, 06:19 PM
(#19)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

Little update. Just lost another 2 buyins. My KKs run into AA twice - that hurt. Something bad has happened to my game I believe,
I just need to work it out fast.


Cheers,

Matt
 
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Sun Jun 08, 2014, 06:37 PM
(#20)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hey Pullin, thought maybe these vids of Dave's might have some stats/graphs of people as they've moved from 2nl to 5nl that might look similar to yours, that might therefore have some tips that might address any similar spots you might have?

(sorry, the wording of that sentence feels super awkward - had a long day at the tables )


Team Full Ring Meeting #1
Team Full Ring Meeting #2
Team Full Ring Meeting #3
Team Full Ring Meeting #4


Since I don't play full ring, am not too familiar with what other vids there are in the library that may be of help - but can relate to how puzzling it can be to try and figure out what needs improving after moving up stakes (although I agree with everyone else, that your graph looks pretty good already!)


GL!
 

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