Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

Need advice!

Need advice! - Thu Jun 05, 2014, 06:59 PM
RickyG83's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 2

I am new player looking for some advice on this one. It was the second straight hand I busted set over set.

I only had a few hands of history so I didn't have much to go on as far as putting him on an range. I put him on a bigger hand, like JJ-AA and AK, AQ.

I probably should have check called check folded the flop since he bet 6 BB pre flop?? or just folded pre flop...

It is common to get beat set over set?

Any help would be appreciated!


Last edited by RickyG83; Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 07:11 PM.. Reason: addition
Thu Jun 05, 2014, 08:13 PM
Spy474's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 39
Hi RickyG83

I think you should Fold your 8-8 here. Let me explain why I think need to fold here.

First of all, my first move would have been to Raise pre-flop. A standard raise around 3BB. (.06$) After, Villain_9 would have raise, maybe even more. Let's say he raise 6BB like he did. I would start question myself, like you said, what is his hand range.
Like you said,
I put him on a bigger hand, like JJ-AA and AK, AQ.
In this case, the best move is to flop. But now, we have another limper. So it's 2 vilain with a potential better hand than yours.

So definitely, folding here pre-flop was the best. (I mean after the re-raise followed by a caller)
Red face
Did you overvalue pocket 88s? - Fri Jun 06, 2014, 04:15 AM
RWFoxtrot's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 1
Hi Ricky!
Like you I am a relatively new poker player and am trying to improve my game. One of the valuable things i have learned is that a pocket pair is a mixed blessing. Pocket 88s are exactly middle pair, which means that even somebody holding a hand as crappy as 92off has a 30% chance of flopping a pair that beats your hand. It also means that any card of the 5 cards that end up on the board has a 50% chance of being higher than yours and so beating your hand as a pair or a set even if you are lucky enough to hit one of your 8s.
Your 88's only have around 10% chance of improving on the flop (i.e. turning into a set) and not not much more than that by the river so your odds are not great especially playing a full ring game.
I would have to agree with spy about folding pre flop (his comment about raising is also very valid) but given that you stayed in I think that your play post flop needs review as well.
If you felt that the villain's range was JJ+,AK and AQ you should examine your motives that led to your actions post flop.
Personally I find it useful to replay the hand as if I can see the villain's cards i.e. "would I bet a pair of 88s against a pair of Jacks or better (or any 2 broadway cards) on that board, knowing that there are only 2 cards that can improve my hand?"
Set over set is a brutal way to lose but it doesn't happen very often. It is far more likely when you play smaller pairs and remember, just as a pair of 88s is exactly middle pair so a set of 8s are exactly middle set!!
Keep going, effort is worth it as your game improves the more you are willing to pick it apart!!
Cheers! Rosco
Fri Jun 06, 2014, 04:32 AM
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Like spy says, you first and biggest mistake is made preflop. Don't call 88 but raise it to 8 or 10 (standaard 3BB + 1BB per limper). Villain9 might 3bet, or might call. If he 3bets, you have an easy fold. If he calls, you know he prob has something good-ish like pairs, A-high, some broadways.

The limp/call of villain_4 can mean anything but I like to think of it as a very weak play. If he had a strong hand, he would prob limp-raise.

As played, you should not donkbet OTF. you are not the aggresor, and this is a pretty good board for 88 so I would probably check-shove (with your small stack). With a full stack, this would be a check-call.

The turn is unfortunately, with the stack you have left, this is always an shove even on this draw-heavy board. Even with a full stack its very hard to get rid of the hand, as played.

Set over set is very rare and you shouldn't worry about that too much until you get to higher levels. On this board I would be much more afraid of hands like 98 or J9 that would play exactly like he did.

Last edited by rkleefstra; Fri Jun 06, 2014 at 04:44 AM..

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com