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Don't Think I Can Go On

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Don't Think I Can Go On - Fri Jun 20, 2014, 07:57 PM
(#1)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
I know there's three hands here but here's why. My day has been full of hands and situations like the below. These 3 hands were the last 3 hands i played before i gave up completely.





I don't think i can keep going after this. I know variance and all but variance don't account for the bullcrap that happens all the time. I mean look at the QQ hand. How on earth does anyone justify being in that hand????

My spirit is all but gone and i fear that these 3 hands may just be the last 3 hands of poker i play

Ok the hand order is reversed. So the QQ was the first hand which is why i shoved with the 2nd hand the K10 and then had almost gave up by the 1010.

Last edited by thephoenix11; Fri Jun 20, 2014 at 07:59 PM.. Reason: hand order
 
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jo - Fri Jun 20, 2014, 08:08 PM
(#2)
miamia78's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 82
Really?you complain about this?


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Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:18 AM
(#3)
Techman180's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 52
I;m not an expert just my thoughts because I too have gone through similar hands.
I understand that it feels like its breaking your spirit. Been there.
But it's also an opportunity.
Have a look at how you play your hands lately and maybe you will find the leaks that promote those kind of loses.
I know easy to say hard to do, but if it was easy everyone would be great players.
Maybe looking more at ....What does the villian have, rather than what you have.
Those example show you have 1pair. All that beats is smaller pair and high card.
Now... if I can only do that myself always..
Goodluck
 
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Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:57 AM
(#4)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman180 View Post
I;m not an expert just my thoughts because I too have gone through similar hands.
I understand that it feels like its breaking your spirit. Been there.
But it's also an opportunity.
Have a look at how you play your hands lately and maybe you will find the leaks that promote those kind of loses.
I know easy to say hard to do, but if it was easy everyone would be great players.
Maybe looking more at ....What does the villian have, rather than what you have.
Those example show you have 1pair. All that beats is smaller pair and high card.
Now... if I can only do that myself always..
Goodluck
Hi i appreciate your thoughts and thank you for your comments but this wasn't really about my play. It was a day where variance ran bad and it was compounded by inferior players fishing away. I look at my play regularly but let's take the QQ hand. My raise was sufficient that any reasonable player is going to fold the A8, the A4 and the KJ preflop. On the flop they all go all in. One has top pair so you can give him that, but the KJ had a flush draw nothing more and the A4 had a gutshot so really really bad play on their part. Maybe after the day i'd had up to that point i should have folded on the flop but any way you analyze the hand my play was perfectly ok and +ev over the longterm.

Well i said i can't go on but after a good sleep i think i've realised that yesterday was what i would like to call "the perfect storm" of a bad day. Bad variance, so my kk's we're going busto against the QQ's and the AK's jst couldn't catch whilst the AJ's of my opponents were catching all day long. Now compound bad variance with bad players and it's jst a recipe for disaster.
Bad players happen regularly but over the course of the game you tend to get the better.
Bad variance happens and is a part of the game.
Bad players + Bad Varience = disaster.

Will have to watch out for this in future and adjust my play accordingly. So next time i shall just walk away, grab a scotch and watch a movie or two and wait for the storm to pass
 
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Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:12 AM
(#5)
Techman180's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 52
Cool. Didnt mean to fault your play just hoping you could look at it and resolve to continue on.
I like your solution best. The scotch that is. lol goodluck
 
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Sun Jun 22, 2014, 05:51 PM
(#6)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
All hand you posted were badly played, I don’t understand how you dare to complain. However, my critic is coming from low level money player and I don’t know anything really about tourneys. This forum is pretty dead; I suggest you post your hand to one of those more active forums one at the time.
 
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Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:08 PM
(#7)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Hi there thephoenix11,

Looking at the TT hand Villian 3 raises in early position

you have not given any reads so I will default to him being a TAG who knows what is what

therefore I give them a 10% raising range in EP this is a little loose but what the hey.

Against that range of 77+ A9s+ KTs+ AJo+ and KQo we are favorite 53% to 46% Preflop but if hes resonable will he really call an all-in with kqo or ATs let alone AJo no he will fold the worse of his hands and call with the best maybe if we are lucky 5%

Now we are a dog 42% to his 57% Our raise has cost us the small advantage and made us a dog.

Grade b

ps i missed out player 8 altogether but if we give hime complete random hand our preflop % drops to 47% we are fav but not overall


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Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:00 AM
(#8)
etchos's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 38
Phoenix you said earlier in this thread "but this wasn't really about my play". I would have to disagree.

Taking them in order the QQ hand. A raiser from early and 2 callers......... People are advertising strength. 3 bet size is ok but the number of calls should alert you to possibility of hands better than yours. On the flop for me its an easy fold. Action suggests a made set or KK.AA. Im not ahead here enough to call.

Second hand. The old adage is "never go broke with a pair" shoving the 10's on the flop is bad. Usually Id say you are only forcing out hands you beat and getting called by better. obviously you got called by worse but the point remains it was not played well.

Third hand. Why are you 3bet shoving here?

So what im getting at is .........This is ALL about your play. If you had been sucked out on up until this point then the skill is to realise you were tilting and stop playing.

Plenty here to work on.
 
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Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:23 PM
(#9)
superthight's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
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planning yur bet - Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:47 PM
(#10)
superthight's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
BronzeStar
pocket queens are just third from the rank .if utg rasies 3bigblinds and 3 oponent call .u shoud think that yur qq is been weaken.the only chance u will have is shove it all in.maybe the original raiser will call .but i think kj and a4 will fold


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Mon Jun 23, 2014, 01:21 PM
(#11)
Riorei's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 26
if u going to play like this then u shouldnt go on.

QQ hand.

If you like agrostyle then why u raise only 720? Theres 500 in the pot already and its 4way hand. Its unlikely that UTG original raiser will fold considering his stack size. He is loose so u should know that he plays big pots with marginal hands.

u shouldve gone allin preflop to pick up that 500 or get into headsup with villain 1.

villain 3 called cause price was right. and why u called shove after flop? what if someone had set?

TT hand

Awful play.
When UTG opens 3,5x then he have a hand. when someone calls he has same or better hand. you must have a better hand to call it/reraise it. TT is not best hand for that. learn the ranges and positions and fundamentals.

KTo hand

Only hand that was played quite ok. Ok u decided to play it, u hit ur T and shoved. just unlucky.


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Mon Jun 23, 2014, 03:38 PM
(#12)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
I tend to agree it's all about your play. You can't control the cards that come or the silly actions of your opponents, but you can control your own decisions. Although these 3 failed hands went down in a harsher than normal way, you really court failure in all 3 with our actions.

QQ - preflop 3b is fine imo. On the flop this is a very precarious situation and folding is a fine option. You have 3 shoves in front. People have already mentioned sets, KK, flopped 2 pairs... if these were decent players then anything other than folding would be an enormous mistake. Obv they are not good players, and even at this blind level we have probably already seen a lot of swinging from the trees. But still there are 3 of them, and even the worst of players flop sets and 2 pair just like the rest of us. If we decide to gamble with our QQ here because they are all terrible, that's fine, but understand we are just gambling... we are sometimes crushed, and when currently ahead rate to have to fade a lot of outs to win a 4 way pot at showdown here.

KTo - preflop complete is marginal but ok. I'd rather raise the limper personally. Flop you are shoving 1600 into 300, this is a pretty poor risk/reward ratio. Betting a normal amount would be better imo. So would check/shoving.

TT - Really bad play preflop to shove 45bb's over an UTG 3.5x open. This one is somewhat understandable though since you were admittedly tilting pretty hard at this point (I've done worse tilting lol).

In short, don't fall into the trap of making excuses about bad players and bad suckouts... focus on your own decisions, which is what you do have influence over, and let the donks keep on donking. You'll find once you are making fewer mistakes, you'll be the beneficiary of their donkingness much more often (but yes, always will have the bad beat from time to time).


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Wed Jul 02, 2014, 11:14 PM
(#13)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveslice View Post
All hand you posted were badly played, I don’t understand how you dare to complain. However, my critic is coming from low level money player and I don’t know anything really about tourneys. This forum is pretty dead; I suggest you post your hand to one of those more active forums one at the time.
Not sure how you figure they were badly played but hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion
The pocket 10's, sure not perfectly played but shoving with them is certainly not a bad play.
The K10 shove on the flop, maybe a little overkill but top pair with 2nd kicker is certainly not the worst play in the world.
and the only mistake i made with the Queens was calling post flop. I still contend that the call is +ev longterm but certainly not bad play.
Oh well on to the next one
 
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Wed Jul 02, 2014, 11:26 PM
(#14)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by etchos View Post
Phoenix you said earlier in this thread "but this wasn't really about my play". I would have to disagree.

Taking them in order the QQ hand. A raiser from early and 2 callers......... People are advertising strength. 3 bet size is ok but the number of calls should alert you to possibility of hands better than yours. On the flop for me its an easy fold. Action suggests a made set or KK.AA. Im not ahead here enough to call.

Second hand. The old adage is "never go broke with a pair" shoving the 10's on the flop is bad. Usually Id say you are only forcing out hands you beat and getting called by better. obviously you got called by worse but the point remains it was not played well.

Third hand. Why are you 3bet shoving here?

So what im getting at is .........This is ALL about your play. If you had been sucked out on up until this point then the skill is to realise you were tilting and stop playing.

Plenty here to work on.
The reason for the thread wasn't about my play but about the play of others and the results they we're getting.
Sure i made some bad decisions but the anger that boiled up inside me that day wasn't because i played bad. but i'd faced dozens of similar situations where i had got my money in with the best of it and lost to hands that shouldn't really have been in the hand.
I'd had a day full of coolers such as KK's getting busted by lower pairs or running into AA's and none of my high A's holding whilst the lower ones were catching and and some sick combo's hitting again'st my solid play.
These hands were the last 3hands of a very difficult day. The queens. right lets take a reality check here. Sure the raise and call "suggests" strength but lets introduce the fact this is the 11 cent tourney where players are loose. My 3 bet was sufficient or should have been sufficient to chase out the hands they actually had. post flop i should have folded but hey this was a bad day where you think you have to get lucky once.
The K10. well yeah i shouldn't go broke with a pair but again look at the big picture. I'd played the normal game all day and got right royally screwed. So i flop top pair with 2nd kicker and instead of the usual sized bet i'm jst like hey, you wanna gamble it's gonna cost ya. Look at the hands that called. They shouldn't have called the bet really.
The 10's yeah i got that one completely wrong. utg raiser i should have call folded to a high flop but i'd just watched my queens get trounced by rediculousness and my top pair get drowned by bottom 4 card flush so understandable.

Was my play in question. okay maybe a little bit but when you look at the showdowns tell me who really needs to look at their play. I made mistakes sure but i sure as hell didn't deserve what happened.

anyway i'm over that day and back to my profitable days. Grinding extra hard atm so i can up my stakes by christmas
 
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Wed Jul 02, 2014, 11:30 PM
(#15)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by superthight View Post
pocket queens are just third from the rank .if utg rasies 3bigblinds and 3 oponent call .u shoud think that yur qq is been weaken.the only chance u will have is shove it all in.maybe the original raiser will call .but i think kj and a4 will fold
Preflop Pocket queens is a very strong hand. The raise and call does imply strength and that is why i 3-bet. To test that strength. on that day a shove would have had me calling because of the bad day but in normality a shove would see me folding unless i had a read. If i shove it all in then i'm risking running into that strength with no way out. By 3 betting i'm testing the strength so that the hands that called theoretically should fold but the calling range or 4 betting range is pretty much polarised to KK, AA and AK. Possibly AQ or AJ.
So by 3 betting i'm giving myself outs and testing the strength showing but i'm certainly not shoving.
 
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Wed Jul 02, 2014, 11:39 PM
(#16)
thephoenix11's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I tend to agree it's all about your play. You can't control the cards that come or the silly actions of your opponents, but you can control your own decisions. Although these 3 failed hands went down in a harsher than normal way, you really court failure in all 3 with our actions.

QQ - preflop 3b is fine imo. On the flop this is a very precarious situation and folding is a fine option. You have 3 shoves in front. People have already mentioned sets, KK, flopped 2 pairs... if these were decent players then anything other than folding would be an enormous mistake. Obv they are not good players, and even at this blind level we have probably already seen a lot of swinging from the trees. But still there are 3 of them, and even the worst of players flop sets and 2 pair just like the rest of us. If we decide to gamble with our QQ here because they are all terrible, that's fine, but understand we are just gambling... we are sometimes crushed, and when currently ahead rate to have to fade a lot of outs to win a 4 way pot at showdown here.

KTo - preflop complete is marginal but ok. I'd rather raise the limper personally. Flop you are shoving 1600 into 300, this is a pretty poor risk/reward ratio. Betting a normal amount would be better imo. So would check/shoving.

TT - Really bad play preflop to shove 45bb's over an UTG 3.5x open. This one is somewhat understandable though since you were admittedly tilting pretty hard at this point (I've done worse tilting lol).

In short, don't fall into the trap of making excuses about bad players and bad suckouts... focus on your own decisions, which is what you do have influence over, and let the donks keep on donking. You'll find once you are making fewer mistakes, you'll be the beneficiary of their donkingness much more often (but yes, always will have the bad beat from time to time).
I would just like to state that my origional purpose of creating this thread was simply to vent. I'd had arguably the worst day at the poker office in my life and these last 3 hands almost broke me.
As with anything in life when the dust settles you pick up the pieces and move on. Learn from any mistakes that may or may not have been made and try to devise a strategy to avoid these situations in the future.
I am making excuses but i feel it is a valid one. The terrible lead up to these last 3 hands was the reason i played them the way i did. The QQ's was simply sick of having everything beat. The K10 was sick of seeing chasers cashing in at my expense. And the 10's tbh was simply sick of poker itself.
Now that the heat and the fire of that day has died down i agree with most comments on here.
The queens was a fold post flop.
The K10 was and should have been a 2/3 pot bet then either check/call or check/fold on turn and river depending on what developed.
The 10's preflop was either a call fold to a high board or simply fold preflop to the UTG raiser.

All remarks are taken on board and appreciated and we all plod on with our poker lives
 

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