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Push or just flat call

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Push or just flat call - Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:14 PM
(#1)
MRSWAT's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
So this is a situation I have had happen to me the last couple of days. In an effort to play better, I guess I need to know first of all if I am doing the play I did here correct, or if I am too quick on the trigger.

My read on this hand:

The preflop raiser has shown they will raise with a wide range. Given there is the raiser plus three callers, I am inclined not to make it a cheap flop with QQ. Given the stack sizes in play compared to mine, I felt that raising to half my chips would be silly as I would be likely facing one or more callers on the flop and would have been pot committed anyuway. I felt flat calling here would be a mistake, hence I thought it best to go all-in.

Thoughts?





PokerStars Hand #117979299445: Tournament #926544780, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2014/06/25 17:21:20 ET
Table '926544780 40' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: targetone (6580 in chips)
Seat 2: tica448 (2600 in chips)
Seat 3: forfi10 (2240 in chips)
Seat 4: 2M&M10 (3420 in chips)
Seat 5: kAyNe2105 (7510 in chips)
Seat 6: maetes (2428 in chips)
Seat 7: Geist1977 (2920 in chips)
Seat 8: MRSWAT (2825 in chips)
Seat 9: edukawa (2919 in chips)
Geist1977: posts small blind 40
MRSWAT: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MRSWAT [Qc Qh]
edukawa: raises 80 to 160
targetone: calls 160
tica448 has timed out
tica448: folds
tica448 is sitting out
tica448 has returned
forfi10: folds
2M&M10: calls 160
kAyNe2105: folds
maetes: calls 160
Geist1977: folds
MRSWAT: raises 2665 to 2825 and is all-in
edukawa: folds
targetone: folds
2M&M10: folds
maetes: calls 2268 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (397) returned to MRSWAT
*** FLOP *** [3h Ac 7s]
*** TURN *** [3h Ac 7s] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [3h Ac 7s 6d] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MRSWAT: shows [Qc Qh] (a pair of Queens)
maetes: shows [Jh As] (a pair of Aces)
maetes collected 5376 from pot
 
Old
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Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:55 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Ripping 35bb over a 2-x and 3 callers seems a bit heavy handed pre-ante imo. I would prefer making this more like 695-725 and go from there. The huge overbet tends to push opponents in the direction of making correct folds with smaller pairs and single overcard hands.

Then again if we have a good feeling someone will just punt their stack as weak as AJ here (which is a really bad stack off imo), then there's more merit to it.

We are basically taking a line that would likely be a mistake against better players, when expecting our opponents to not punish us for that mistake (by making correct folds) but instead make an even bigger mistake (stacking off 30+bb with small pairs and AJ-) and thus negate our own.


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Old
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Wed Jun 25, 2014, 08:29 PM
(#3)
MRSWAT's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
Well, there was definitely a lot of loose players at this table. The player who ended up calling my raise had been doing so with worse before. Part of my decision to make it an all-in was because there were a lot of looser players at this table. I don't know about a smaller raise here because I fell like there would have been a call anyway out of the ones who called the initial raise.

My thought here is if I am going to raise I either want to isolate someone, or take it down right there. If I wanted to have players in the flop I could have simply called the raise as I was last to act preflop and see what happened on the flop.

I guess the real question is, given that I was on the BB and I was last to act preflop, do I consider just calling the raise with the intent of seeing what the flop brings? I mean yes it's another 80 to call, but almost seems like here I would get to see the flop for a lot less, than I would if I re-raise 4x the original bet only for someone overvaluing AJ to call anyway and catch their ace on the flop.
 
Old
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Wed Jun 25, 2014, 08:43 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
No, I would definitely prefer to reraise here. Our hand doesn't have that much value in a 5 way pot unimproved, and it has too much value now not to reraise.

We don't want everyone to fold, the preflop raiser aside all of the cold callers assuredly have a worse hand than QQ, we want them to make calling mistakes vs. us, not fold correctly. The purpose of making a more normal sized 3-bet is to encourage more calling and reraising mistakes by the worse hands than ours. If they are going to make huge calling mistakes without encouragement (like this villain did) then shoving 35bb's becomes more attractive to me.


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