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Overshoving Ks with big stack vs chip leader

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Overshoving Ks with big stack vs chip leader - Mon Jul 28, 2014, 08:30 PM
(#1)
Alfa Djalo's Avatar
Since: May 2014
Posts: 11
Hi,

The following is a hand I played in a 10c/360 SnG recently.



I think it is pretty standard (please correct me if I am wrong).
My questions are more around what hand ranges the main players should be shoving/calling with.

Background:
The bubble has just burst. Lisa is either the chip leader or close to it. I am top 10 in chips out of about 35. Money jumps are small until the final table.

We haven't been at the same table long, and she hasn't been involved in many hands. The only note I have is that she called down with 8s from the BB in a limped pot with a Khi flop.

I have been reasonably tight.

My questions are:
Are there any hands she should be calling the original shove with and folding to my overshove ? Clearly AKo has to call; should she be calling small/medium pocket pairs or average As with two big stacks behind ?
Should she just be shoving herself ? I certainly would have with AK and maybe AQ, 10s+, but below that I think I would just fold.

What range should I be shoving over the top ? I think I would draw the line at Js+ and AK.

Thanks,
Alfa.
 
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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 07:31 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,024
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa Djalo View Post
What range should I be shoving over the top ? I think I would draw the line at Js+ and AK.
Absolutely, I think you played this fine and a shove here is the best approach

I would have played it exactly the same way.

Raiser


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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:22 AM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Without crunching the precise stack size numbers, I think you should only be shoving QQ+/AK here, and being called by the same range. I think I fold jacks in your position. If villain 4 calls twice with AQ or TT, I think it's a pretty big mistake, since your range for reshoving a stack of that size should be super-premiums only, against which AQ/TT does pretty badly.


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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:57 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Villain 4 only needs 24.6% pot equity to call the re-shove. The other thing to remember here is that since the bubble just burst, the open-shove and the reshove can be lighter than normal.

Let's assume that the reshove's range is JJ+, AK+

If this is the case, then villain 4 can profitably call with this range from pokerstove (much wider than we all probably think)... 22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,ATo+,KTo+,QJo

If I was the first opp, I'd have iso-raised instead of flatting... but by flatting, it makes a call for them much, much easier as they're priced in for the above range (not just premiums).

John (JWK24)


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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:24 PM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Villain 4 only needs 24.6% pot equity to call the re-shove. The other thing to remember here is that since the bubble just burst, the open-shove and the reshove can be lighter than normal.

Let's assume that the reshove's range is JJ+, AK+

If this is the case, then villain 4 can profitably call with this range from pokerstove (much wider than we all probably think)... 22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,ATo+,KTo+,QJo

If I was the first opp, I'd have iso-raised instead of flatting... but by flatting, it makes a call for them much, much easier as they're priced in for the above range (not just premiums).

John (JWK24)
Why can villain call with that range when A2s has 29% vs JJ+/AK?
 
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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:36 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Why can villain call with that range when A2s has 29% vs JJ+/AK?
If their hand is worth 29% and their pot equity is 24.6%... they expect to GAIN 4.4% every single time they call.

John (JWK24)


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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:54 PM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
If their hand is worth 29% and their pot equity is 24.6%... they expect to GAIN 4.4% every single time they call.

John (JWK24)
Oh right so would you call with your whole range there? Even 32s has 26% i was also wondering why is it 24.6 is needed. I thought it was around a pot sized raise so around 33% maybe more like 32%.

Do you add your call into the odds as well seen as its the last bet where if there was another bet to come you would just look at the price to call and money all ready in the pot?

Im slightly confused because if i ever faced a pot sized bet on the river in cash games i thought i need to have the best hand 33% of the time.
 
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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:01 PM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Oh right so would you call with your whole range there? Even 32s has 26% i was also wondering why is it 24.6 is needed. I thought it was around a pot sized raise so around 33% maybe more like 32%.

Do you add your call into the odds as well seen as its the last bet where if there was another bet to come you would just look at the price to call and money all ready in the pot?

Im slightly confused because if i ever faced a pot sized bet on the river in cash games i thought i need to have the best hand 33% of the time.
It's not going to be my whole range.. this is a 3-way pot, so I need to account for the other opp (open-shove chart has that position at about 20% from their position and stack size, so used 20% in pokerstove).

to get pot equity, it's (how many chips do I need to put into the pot)/(size of pot after my chips go in)

IF it's a HU pot, then facing a pot bet, you do need to have the best hand 33% (pot/3x pot)

John (JWK24)


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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:21 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Why can villain call with that range when A2s has 29% vs JJ+/AK?
If I put all the aces down to A2s in the range, then it goes below the pot equity.. it's a 3-way pot, not HU.

John (JWK24)


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Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:21 PM
(#10)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Right i see i missed off the 3rd players range, i can see how i got confused now with the pot equity needed i thought he was calling 30k not 20. Its so much easier when you look at the call button and not the stack size.
 

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