Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Tournament Section (MTTs & STTs) /

$11 Phase tournament How not to get married to over-pairs

Old
Default
$11 Phase tournament How not to get married to over-pairs - Sat Aug 09, 2014, 05:19 PM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
It is $11 Phase tournament with 2 Day's (Phase 1 = Day 1 and Phase 2 = Day 2). I am playing Phase 1 where I need to survive 15 levels and it has 10mins blind level.

How should I have played this hand and where should I have folded it?



STATS :
 
Old
Default
Sat Aug 09, 2014, 08:32 PM
(#2)
shoim's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 180
Hey Adi,

Pre-flop and flop is cool, but giving up the initiative on turn and surrendering the river with only one pot size bet left and the turn/river bricks is not ok in my books, he has AA/KK/AJ maybe or any suited J, but then AA and KK would 4bet pre or re-raise big the flop to tax a draw, AJs, or any J for that matter, would check call to river and shove.
Hope I am right, I am usually not though :P

Regards,
Shoim (Bogdan)
 
Old
Default
Sat Aug 09, 2014, 11:44 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,825
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi adikumar2010!

I'm going to take a totally different line in this hand.

Preflop is the first key. When the opp raises to 160, a standard 3-bet sizing is to between 400-480. I do not want to overbet and tell the opp that I have a premium pair... which is what an observant opp will realize that you have by raising to 520. I need to keep all of my bets standard and not to raise more with better hands and less with worse. I'd raise to 475.

On the flop, I'm absolutely going to make a 1/2 pot c-bet. However, when the opp clickback raises, I've got two options. I can either 3-bet him here and raise to 3k (what I will do the majority of the time) or I can call and re-evaluate on the turn.

If I call the flop raise, I need to fire again on the turn. If I check/call, then I'm basically obligating myself to check/call the river.

To me, the best line is to standard 3-bet preflop, then 3-bet the flop. If I meet any resistance on the flop 3-bet, then it's an easy check/fold on the turn. By taking this line, I keep the initiative in the hand and since I'm 3-betting the flop instead of betting the turn, it will also cost me less chips if the opp does have a J and I need to fold.

As played, this gives the opp an open license to steal the pot on the turn or river, as they can easily bluff with anything and get away with it (the opp is playing 25% of hands, which has a large number of them that miss this flop or are draws on this flop). The line the opp takes can easily be 9x or a number of draws and pairs that I'm ahead of... and by playing it passively, I'm folding the best hand a much larger % of the time that I should be.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:43 AM
(#4)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Interesting responses so far.

I think the 3 bet sizing is not too large given we are OOP and pre antes.

I am not cbetting, we block the Qx draws, I am not sure AK is in villain's 3 bet flatting range. I think its better to give him the chance to bluff some of his range he would fold to our cbet.

By calling a raise on the flop we are helping build a significant pot. We need to think about turn and river there. I think it is better to fold flop than fold to a bet on turn or c/c turn and fold to a river bet.

We have 8 hands on villain, we have a sense he is aggressive, but its a tiny sample to try and interpret much about the flop raise. I'd be surprised if villain raises trips or better on the flop, I'd expect the raise to come later like shoim suggests. But hey we have this lol sample, villain could fast play Jx+ wanting to increase likelihood of getting money in by river (I like that) or he might raise lots of flops and therefore need the Nutty hands in the raising range (I like that). I don't know really, we're guessing at villain and I wouldn't cbet.

Adikumar I know you have had some success at these flighted tournaments, so I was very surprised to hear you say you need to "survive" 15 levels. I'd be taking the view of having 15 levels to build a decent day 2 stack, with a gazillion other day 1s if that doesn't go well.
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:50 AM
(#5)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I 3-bet huge against fishes as they are willing to pay premium to see the flop once they raised preflop or limped, they don't like to be pushed around that's what they think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
Adikumar I know you have had some success at these flighted tournaments, so I was very surprised to hear you say you need to "survive" 15 levels. I'd be taking the view of having 15 levels to build a decent day 2 stack, with a gazillion other day 1s if that doesn't go well.
It becomes survival once you lose 6 phase 1's

Last edited by adikumar2010; Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 06:59 AM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:54 AM
(#6)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Other way of playing it is by check calling the flop bet instead of making C-bet. Then bet any turn.

The way I played I think he can bluff me for sure. Maybe I should have folded to his turn bet. But on the river I somehow felt that he doesn't have a Jack. Coz usually recs slow play trips and not raise the flop. So he can have 9x and he think's he has the best hand there. I wanted to call the river badly.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't 3-bet on the flop coz that bet would be tester bet to see where I am at. And even if I 3-bet on the flop these fishes are not capable of folding 9X, he would still call 100% and what do I take that as that he has a Jack. That 3-bet on the flop is just waste of money plus it doesn't even tells me for sure that he has Jack if my flop 3-bet doesn't get a fold.

Also if you think he is a sane player I think he will fold 9X to my flop 3-bet, so what did I accomplish by 3-betting flop, getting a fold from the hand that I beat already.

And if he is insane he is still calling 3-bet with 9X to my flop 3-bet. And I am still lost if he has a jack or not

Last edited by adikumar2010; Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 07:08 AM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:58 AM
(#7)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Why do you assume he is a fish/recreational player. You only have 8 hands. All you know is he has played aggressively in a tiny sample and has a bunch of chips.

Why would you check call flop and then lead any turn?
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:01 AM
(#8)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I don't remember exact hand but the last hand he won was with a junk hand.

I don't know about this hand, seriously I am lost. I think Check-call flop, check-call turn, check-fold river is best line.

2nd option is C-bet and then call his raise like I did, and just check-fold to his turn bet.
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:27 AM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,825
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
.

I'd be taking the view of having 15 levels to build a decent day 2 stack, with a gazillion other day 1s if that doesn't go well.
I totally agree. +1

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:35 AM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,825
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
It becomes survival once you lose 6 phase 1's
Losing in 6 mtt's is nothing. You'll see streaks of 30-40 or more frequently. That's why to follow bankroll management, I need 100 buy-ins in my bankroll before playing a given level of tournament.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:21 PM
(#11)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
Adikumar I know you have had some success at these flighted tournaments, so I was very surprised to hear you say you need to "survive" 15 levels. I'd be taking the view of having 15 levels to build a decent day 2 stack, with a gazillion other day 1s if that doesn't go well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I totally agree. +1

John (JWK24)
This one is for you Awe



That's what I am taking about in first attempt for this week's flight only $11 investment, taking nice stack to Day 2 this time (courtesy of 1 suckout ). I guess this has to happen after wasting 8-9 buyins in last week's Phase 1 and then also not making to Phase 2
 
Old
Default
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:35 PM
(#12)
shoim's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 180
Now THAT is one cool picture
Have one of Carmen Electra ? Oh ... wait, you can actually ask her out
Congrats man, very nice result !!!
Small envy kicks in
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com