Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

$1.5 6 max hyper turbo hand review

Old
Default
$1.5 6 max hyper turbo hand review - Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:27 AM
(#1)
supernick118's Avatar
Since: Apr 2014
Posts: 4


This just happened and am wondering if I should have played it differently?

I will explain my though process....

Preflop:
I am getting too good a price to fold despite my hand potentially being dominated by the first opener and so flat call, if I 3bet only better hands are calling and the UTG+1 range is going to be fairly tight (stats say he was a reg).

Postflop:
Flop top pair on a board which is not draw heavy, decide to check with the intention of raising any bet from the pre flop aggressor.

Checks around so I decide to bet for value, once the pre flop aggressor checks I figure that he is unlikely to have Aq same with the caller as he would have 3 bet shove with this hand. AA, KK would probably have bet the flop and sets are extremely unlikely from the pre flop aggressor given that he is a reg and I hold a blocker to QQ so I figure that I am far ahead of his range.

With regards to the caller I figure he could have a reasonably wide range on the flop and when he shoves the turn I feel that the nuts (45) is impossible to hold given his pre flop action and how many players are left to act when he calls. The same logic for holding 33 and how likely a squeeze may be. At this stage I feel that his range looks like: a set of 6's, a worse queen, a draw or a big draw like JQhearts also with a few bluffs or middle pair type hands given that I have under-repped my hand by checking the flop. I call his shove as I feel I am ahead of his range.

Obviously he shows up with 45 which I feel is just a case of showing up with the absolute top of his range (I call it a ghost range where they have a hand which would make some sense but they are extremely unlikely to hold haha!) however my questions are... is my thought process correct? I am missing anything? Should I be flat calling with 45 suited with 3 players left to act? Should I be donking the flop or was attempted check raising acceptable?

Sorry for the essay.

TL/DR: Is this hand just a bad beat from a hand he should't be holding?
 
Old
Default
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:51 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,822
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi supernick118!

This is definitely not a bad beat and it's not even a cooler, as it's misplayed so that the opp was priced in due to the small bets and if they're priced in, it's fine for them to play connectors. If they can make a +EV play, then they expect to gain chips on average, regardless of what their holding is.

Here's the way that I'd have played it.

With KQ in the BB, I get an abnormally small raise from UTG (standard is to 3BB+1BB for each limper), then a flat of this. I now have two choices, I can either 3-bet (a standard amount is to between 2.5X the previous bet and a pot-sized raise) or I can flat and see the flop. In most cases, I'm going to 3-bet, but I will just call a small % of the time in order to balance out how I'm playing so that the opp can't get a read on the cards that I have.

When I flop top pair, I absolutely need to lead the flop. A standard value bet sizing with 2 opps in the pot is 2/3 pot, so I need to bet 95 chips. If I do not bet this much, then I can be giving the opps the correct odds to try to outdraw me and if I do so and they hit.. it's my own fault that I lose the hand.
The only time that I can slowplay a hand is if there is not a single card in the deck that can beat me. Here, there are a number of them that could potentially beat me, so I absolutely must bet.

On the turn, I need to once again make a 2/3 pot bet (but if I had bet the flop, then this bet is going to pot-commit me (put over 1/3 of my remaining chips into the pot), so I'd need to shove.

Flatting with suited connectors when IN position with an abnormally small raise or a limp is a smart play. You can get into a pot cheaply with a hand that if you hit the flop, you can win a very large pot, as the opps won't be putting you on the hand that you actually hold. For me, 45 is a little light for this situation, but if I had 56, 67, 78.. I'd be more than happy to flat the abnormally small raise and see if I can flop a big one.

If I was the opp and flopped an OESD, then I could only stay in the hand if I would be able to pay under 16% pot equity to stay. If calling a bet would be over 16%, then I'd have to fold... so if a 2/3 pot bet is made by the player with KQ (or 1/2 pot if the other opp folds)... I'd expect to lose chips if I call and need to fold. However, when everyone checks, then I get a free card (the opp's fault) and since they gave me a free card and I hit, it's their own fault that I win the hand.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:20 PM
(#3)
supernick118's Avatar
Since: Apr 2014
Posts: 4
Thanks for your reply john it's muchly appreciated! I am always surprised just how friendly this forum is when compared to some of the other big poker forums. So much less trolling haha!

I understand your point about leading especially when multiway and is something I will take on board, I feel that wrongly slow playing marginal hands is a major leak of mine. Would you say that I should be trying to balance my donking range like with the

I have a question about your sizing recommendation, given that this is a hyper turbo should i really be opening with 3x + 1BB for every limper like a cash game given stack sizes start at 25BB and so I would essentially be giving up 16% of my stack to open vs a limper. Same with 3 betting in this spot if I 2.5X-pot his 2BB raise I am basically committing 20-25% of my stack and having to fold if he shoves?

Hyper turbos are an area where it is so difficult to find information on, I have purchased the "crushing the $1.5" video pack by ILS007 and he advocates min raising and having railed many of the $1000 games all of the players also min raise and 3 bet jam as opposed to 2.5Xing.
I was under the impression that suited connectors only had real value in deep stack play (50+BB effective) due to implied odds and that the hyper turbos were more about the high card value.

Again thanks for your reply and sorry for the additional questions lol!

Nick
 
Old
Default
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:57 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,822
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
The problem with going lower on a 3-bet is that there are so many chips in the middle that even really marginal hands with weak draws are going to be priced in. That's why I don't go lower.

I do lower my opening raises as the blinds go higher, but don't want to do it when the blinds are very small and all the maniacs are still in, as the last thing I want to do is to give a maniac the right odds to be in a hand with me. I've been playing around with some min's and use a number of 2.'s, but not until the maniacs are out and the antes kick in.

For me, I play a turbo or hyper the same way that I go about playing a longer MTT.. just everything happens a whole lot quicker.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 09:48 PM
(#5)
DrDonkin's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 874
3x raise's are abnormally large in hypers and 2 x is perfect. Raising more than 2 x is just a waste when your 3bet and are forced to fold.

Im currently in a coaching/stake deal in hypers and they are something else i can tell you that. And no disrespect to pso but none of the hand analysers specialise in hypers, so taking advice from trainers that dont play them isn't going to help you much. If you have paid for a training package i would imagine there is enough information in that to beat the level.

I would suggest looking for a skype group that specialise in hypers, where you can talk strategy and theory and share hands.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com