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Bad Line With 2nd Nut Flush Draw? - 10NL Regular Fullring

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Bad Line With 2nd Nut Flush Draw? - 10NL Regular Fullring - Wed Aug 13, 2014, 12:07 PM
(#1)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,034
(Community Coordinator)
Stats on villain

32/12/2

Player was loose and kinda aggressive and I saw him getting caught out on a few bluff steal attempts.

I decide to flat preflop and flop a monster draw. He bet small postflop which I took as weakness on his behalf.

Even though I was aware he might have the nut flush here that really didn't concern me, was that a right way of thinking?

I would have been more concerned if the board paired giving him a full house.

General thoughts on the way I played this hand please, bet-sizing etc.

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

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Raiser


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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:59 PM
(#2)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I would prefer to shove OTT when the villain bets. Even though it's a small bet and yes we can be beat, we need to shove to get value from sets, 2 pair, worse flushes, straights, flush draws and straight draws.

And if we are beat OTT we have 1 out! I just think there's more value in shoving ott than shoving otr.
 
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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:06 PM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Super unfortunate hand IMO.

Mostly agree with dirt eh though.

I see flexscat is still at the full ring regular tables, haven't played full ring in almost a year, he's still the guy I have the most hands on in my database. We played a lot together.
 
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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:26 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi Paul,

I don't like shoving the turn so will disagree, I think the key here is that the villain is a LAG known to make bluffing mistakes. If we overbet shove the turn we deny him a chance to make any more bluffing mistakes in this hand.

So the merit in calling the turn is to allow him to bluff on the river... but since he's bet so small, only .70c into 3.75, I would like to see a raise. I think it should be a small raise though... maybe to $2.10, which if he calls will leave the pot at 7.95 with 5.70 behind, so river action will be all in. And it allows him to 3-bet shove the turn as a bluff or semi-bluff thinking you can fold. The smaller raise accomplishes both our goals, getting more money in the pot and leaving him new opportunities to make additional bluffing mistakes with his weak hands.



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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:47 PM
(#5)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
I don't see how we should be offering someone 4.7 to 1 odds on the turn and then shoving the river. I guess we can check back OTR if the board pairs or if another diamond comes?

Personally, I don't think villains will be 3-bet shoving "a bluff" OTT here at 10nl FR and/or at higher stakes, players don't just spazz out for no reason with a semi bluff, especially if we give them 4.7 to 1 odds. I think we make more money at 10nl by shoving the turn and letting our opponent draw, or by having our opponent think that we're drawing, instead of getting value from their bluffs or strong top pair/overpair hands. Also this villain won't be bluffing the river considering the action, they would give up when they miss and stack us when they hit.
 
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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:41 PM
(#6)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
agree with Coach Langolier reraise the turn and get it all in on the river
 
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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:50 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt eh View Post
I don't see how we should be offering someone 4.7 to 1 odds on the turn and then shoving the river.
4.7-1 is pretty bad odds to draw dead. Which a lot of the villains range is doing now. If we knew he was drawing live with the Ad or had a set, a bigger raise would be good, but we're playing a range that is wide and given the turn sizing, often weak.

Quote:
I guess we can check back OTR if the board pairs or if another diamond comes?
We can. But I think shoving otr is still profitable for the same reasons you think shoving the turn is.

Quote:
Personally, I don't think villains will be 3-bet shoving "a bluff" OTT here at 10nl FR and/or at higher stakes, players don't just spazz out for no reason.
Villains randomly, likely not. But our villain isn't random, we have a read that he's a bad LAG who has already been showing bluffs. This guy is much more likely to lose his mind than the average random imo.


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