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Nice or dangerous bluff on the river ?

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Nice or dangerous bluff on the river ? - Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:33 AM
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Didlesdi's Avatar
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On the button, I just call preflop with 10J offsuit. The flop gives me a straight draw... so I just call and check until the river. I missed the straight. I have nothing but the ace of spade on the river is a terrific card. The first vilain bets very small (is he afraid or is he slow playing ?), the other folds. I can represent a pair of aces or a flush (especially when I simply check a call from in button). It's time to bluff... I make a large bet corresponding the half of my opponent's stack and it is not on overbet due to the pot size.
Is this what we call fold equity ?
Was my action right or very dangerous ?
Should I do this again ?
Would it work against very strong players ?

Thanks for your help !

Didier

Last edited by Didlesdi; Sun Aug 17, 2014 at 10:46 AM..
 
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Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:23 AM
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Hi Didier!

With 10BB or under, I need to be shoving or folding preflop. JT here with 2 limpers (especially if they're loose) is a good spot to go with.. so I'm shoving pre.

If I saw the flop with chips (wouldn't happen), when there is a bet on the turn, I absolutely must fold. I need to call 1600 chips into a pot that will be 13350 (12%). I have 4 outs to a gutshot and from the rule of 4 and 2, each out is worth 2% equity per street, so my hand is worth 8%. Since my pot equity is higher than my hand equity, I expect to LOSE chips and need to fold.

As played, this will not work against competent opponents. First, the limp when under 10BB is a problem. The flop is checked, so Qx should not be in the button's range, as they need to bet a queen here and if they do so, they need to shove due to not having many chips.
The call on the turn says the 3 helped your hand (33 doesn't have the correct odds to setmine, 15x the bet in everyone's stack, so should rule it out) and then shoving with an SPR<1 on the river.... a competent opp will call you with Ax, Qx and could even do so with 9x or 7x as the line taken doesn't make sense and when a line doesn't make sense... its normally a bluff.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:38 AM
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Didlesdi's Avatar
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Hi John,

Thank you for this advice ! In fact, I should shove against two limpers... Is 10J offsuit really sufficient to do this or is it safer to simply fold... ?

I think I folding too much, hoping to stay alive in tournament so I play a long time but I don't win a lot...

Thanks for your help !

Didier
 
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Sun Aug 17, 2014, 12:06 PM
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When you get to be a short stack in a cash tourney, you need to take calculated chances and if everyone folds, I gain almost 50% to my stack (I'm happy with even 20-25%). While JT is at the bottom of my range here, it does have the equity to play if I get called in this situation due to how many chips are already in the pot.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Aug 17, 2014, 08:14 PM
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Since: Aug 2010
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ill wait for a better spot here vs the early position limper bec i dont have much fold equity

but when you limp behind with JTo and you hit an open ender you shove it post flop whether your first to act or last

time to gamble
 
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Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:04 AM
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Last edited by Didlesdi; Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 10:27 AM..
 
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Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for your advice.
Keeping talking about small stacks in tournaments. Here's another hand. I have 20BB, am I short stack ?
I shove preflop with QQ. I have the best hand but I lost since the big stack pay me...

Was it a good move ?

And if it is, how to win tournaments if luck is not there... ?


And here's another one where I shove preflop with only A2... I was lucky... Was it a good move too ? Thanks !




Best regards,

Didier
 
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Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:57 AM
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20BB is not short, it's a re-steal stack. With this hand, I do want to make a raise and since a standard raise (pot-sized raise with multiple opps in the hand) pot-commits me.. then I need to shove.

With the A2, this one's marginal. If I was the first into the pot, then I'd absolutely shove here, but with the limp from UTG, I'm more likely to be called. Due to this, it will depend on a read of this player. Are they tight or loose and do they normally limp? The answers to this will determine my course of action.

John (JWK24)


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Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:14 AM
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Didlesdi's Avatar
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Thank you for your quick answer John !
For QQ, it had the same thought. I will not fold this hand so, if i am pot committed, it's better to shove directly.
For A2, the vilain limped several times before this hand so I shoved thinking he would fold...

I think it would be nice to have a topic about shoving preflop with short stacks on tournaments with several examples...

Didier
 
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Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didlesdi View Post

I think it would be nice to have a topic about shoving preflop with short stacks on tournaments with several examples...

Didier
Many of these situations are opponent dependent... so what may be correct in one situation may be totally incorrect in another with the same hand on the same stack.

John (JWK24)


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