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2NL regular table - Playing the donk bet on the flop and turn...

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2NL regular table - Playing the donk bet on the flop and turn... - Tue Aug 19, 2014, 11:42 PM
(#1)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
I tried hard not to post a hand today. But there is a live training story.

So we flat co 77 to a utg open. Donk position twice oops OK river check showdown.

I'm a very rare donk the flop player, continue on the turn and position allows us to check behind on the river. A PSO live trainer once said "BWP" (bet without purpose / reason)? Why has this phrase stuck with me for so long?

Can we be losing pre, on flop and turn? Why bet river are they waiting to jam over us, or do we miss value? This is 1c/2c so hope there is no bluff range maths here.

If they bet river we are beat -or- bet and get jammed on?


Last edited by ForrestFive; Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:04 AM..
 
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Fri Aug 22, 2014, 01:23 AM
(#2)
Tyirl's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
I like this hand. That flop is so beautiful, lol.

It's interesting because our hand is potentially very strong, but also possibly pretty marginal depending on what the villain is actually holding. If the villain is holding TT+ with no spade, then on the flop we are ahead in equity sitting at about 60%. If the villain is holding TT+ with a spade, then on the flop we are behind in equity at approximately 34%. The actual hand that the villain had made our equity on the flop very nice at about 62%. Just as a point of interest if he had AK with no spade, then our equity on the flop would have been about 89%, but I doubt he continues in the hand.

I'm concerned about what we do if the river comes a 2 of spades instead of the 2 of hearts. After he calls two streets like that he would very often have a higher spade than us, and if he did have a hand like KK with no spade then I don't think he is calling on the river 2 of spades. Because of those thoughts I guess that if the river was the two of spades and he checked it to us then we should be checking it down, and if he decided to lead into us on the two of spades river after check calling flop and turn, then I think we have to fold. If the river is the 4 or 9 of spades then we just hope that he really does have a A or K of spades, lol.

As far as how the actual hand went. I don't think it's technically donk betting, because to "donk bet" you would have to be able to act before the final pre-flop aggressor. My opinion is that it was a well played hand. I think that on the flop the hand is definitely strong enough to bet when he checks it to us. I don't know stats on the villain, but he is opening from UTG pre so I'm gonna guess that his range will have some pocket pairs larger than the flop, but also a ton of unpaired cards that are larger than the flop and often will have a singleton spade that will want to continue which you can get value from. Happily, he doesn't check/raise the flop, he just calls. When you get that turn card and he checks it to you again I think you are correct again to bet for the same reasons as on the flop. When the river bricks off and he checks it again, then I think that you are correct to check it back because I can't think of anything that he is going to call a bet with on the river (that he check called flop and turn with) that you are beating, and I doubt that he is folding the hands that are beating you very often.

Nice hand!


T

Last edited by Tyirl; Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:38 AM.. Reason: verbiage
 
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Fri Aug 22, 2014, 02:20 AM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
You didn't donk bet.

He missed a cbet and you fired with an OESFD. As played, I would bet river, he's checked three times. Unless he has a read on you that you are barrel happy then he has no reason to do so unless he is drawing, or bad.

He can have us beat, but I think we can make a small bet to get value from As + small pair hands. it's thin but I think it's worth it.
 
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Fri Aug 22, 2014, 05:32 PM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,308
You're in position, so it's not a donk bet.

I would sometimes check back the flop, but at 2NL it's not a huge mistake to bet it, as most 2NL villains fold to a bet after checking as the PFR. If you bet the flop, then I think checking the turn to try and get to showdown cheaply is best.

Betting the river would be a mistake. There is not a single worse hand that calls.

As it goes, villain's line might be optimal. AK with the As is a great hand to put into his check-calling range. I don't think there's anything he should bluff with on the river, so if he does lead the river, then he has a slowplayed flush.


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